Travis Dickerson Recording Studio Forum

Political and Social Discussions => Political and Social Discussions => Topic started by: D.O.D on April 30, 2005, 04:12:35 pm

Title: Voices of Courage
Post by: D.O.D on April 30, 2005, 04:12:35 pm
Very slowly the voices of courage are being heard in the land. To name just a few... Michael Moore, Howard Zinn, David Griffin. Are there  more?  DOD
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: spencer on May 01, 2005, 06:56:08 am
It is true I don\'t know anything about the current political state of our country or anything, so therefore i don\'t really have a veritable opinion on this subject.

That said-I really dislike Michael Moore.  I\'m not republican, and I don\'t think my immeadeate family is either, I just don\'t think people should actually watch his films and take in information on that.  They\'re pretty chopped and edited heavily to the point of entertainment, not for information.

Another thing I think about when I visit typically liberal boards on the internet is that while everyone here hates Bush, there\'s still a majority in America that prefers them over Kerry or anything the Democratic party had to dish out.  

So... I don\'t know.  I\'m just gonna keep living life, and ignore the important things until nuclear war strikes and then i\'ll start complaining about how the world\'s gonna end.  Cuz, let\'s face it-short of a magical rock group that changes the world indefinately for the good a la Wyld Stallyns ("Bowling scores are way up, and mini-golf scores are WAY down"), there\'s no way to stop the madness that happens in this world except selective genocide, but then again, who are we to decide who dies?  

 :-[ :P


For the record, I\'m not trying to talk against you, I really really respect you from what i\'ve read earlier, i\'m just kinda ramblin\', cuz I\'m a kid, and I need to emote if i wanna turn out to be sane when I grow up.
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: stuffyrandL on May 02, 2005, 01:55:56 am
Hey, Spencer,
In my Fire Investigation class, we were taught to get to an incident while it was still burning.  Walk around, look from all sides, gather information.  Look at that information objectively and form an opinion to the best of your ability.  If you want to learn more about the current situation(s) in our country (and the world, for that matter) that\'s a good way to begin.  It may take a bit of time for you to sort out the information you collect but it\'s worth it in the long run.  It sounds like a cliche but what is decided now in our country will affect you sooner or later.  And when it does, you can make an informed, intelligent decision based on the information you\'ve gathered. :)
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: deconstruct on May 02, 2005, 04:32:11 pm
I admire and have a lot of respect for Seymour Hersh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh). (It makes me ill to see the Michael Jackson case receive more media coverage than the Abu Ghraib trial). I think he is journalistic integrity personified.
I\'m a big fan of Janeane Garofalo (http://www.majorityreportradio.com) too. She\'s bright, articulate, wears her heart on her sleeve (literally), and funny as hell.
I appreciate the work of Amy Goodman (http://www.democracynow.org/) but I can\'t honestly say I have the time to listen to her show. She\'s on Public Access television here as well, but at the strangest hours.

I don\'t think youth should be an excuse to be uninformed. If it is then I think the rest of this country\'s got some \'splaining to do. Like the previous poster said, we should all look at information objectively and come to an informed opinion. It doesn\'t necessarily mean you\'ll walk away as a liberal, conservative, or any other label people like to toss around. It just means you\'ll be informed and are better able to articulate and justify your opinion when you do find one.
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: gkg on May 02, 2005, 06:29:47 pm
a huge note of agreement on Sy Hersh!  he\'s marvelous.

i miss the days of editors and reporters who really dug into the facts and put them out there for all to read and consider - they were journalists first and foremost.  Hersh is one of a dying breed.  it\'s all sound bites and bullshit for PR & money with so much of the mainstream media.

i think Maureen Dowd also does a good job of trying to get things out there.

Spencer - you\'ve said before that you\'re too young to get interested in politics, you want to enjoy your youth - but you\'re not all that young any more and what is happening today determines what your life will be like tomorrow - now is the time to develop an informed frame of mind so that when the vote is handed to you at age 18 you have a basis of comparison and an understanding of the situation at hand.

don\'t dismiss Moore just because he\'s entertaining, he\'s entertaining to get people to look - but he\'s presenting facts.  if you doubt that - look up the context of each segment that you question - do some research.  simplistic dismissal of a messenger is how one gets into trouble.  i think, my young friend, it\'s time to step forward and address the fact that you\'re a young man in a troubled nation.
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Peace_On_Earth on December 26, 2005, 05:50:17 pm
More Voices of Courage can be found here from the Howard Zinn\'s Voices of the People\'s History of the United States:

URL: https://store.democracynow.org/?pid=10&show=2005-12-26 (can be purchased as CD: $15, Video $30 and DVD $25)

I was kucky enough to get tickets to this reading. All the performers can be included in those who are voices of courage: Anthony Arnove, Christina Kirk, Josh Brolin, Danny Glover, Vanessa Martinez, Kerry Washington, Floyd Red Crow, Viggo Mortensen, Sandra Oh, Leslie Silva and Marisa Tomei.

But even more so, I feel those who speak out in an independent voice apart from corporatism and lies are the strongest voices of courage. Like those who send letters to editors, those who post activism on their Web sites and still others who start campaigns of peace, that is where we will find the true voices of courage.

In a world where a government oppresses its people for speaking out to the point of wide spread depression , the true applause goes to those folks who stay the course.
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: stuffyrandL on December 27, 2005, 04:58:23 am
Thanks for the link, Peace on Earth!  

Yesterday, my sister-in-law and her boyfriend gave my husband Responses to Occupation.  He laughed and laughed when he opened it.  For we had given them the same book and to my husband\'s father as well. LOL!  And we gave Intelligence Failure to hubby\'s dad and sis as well.  They listened to it on the way to another family gathering today and his mother called to tell us it was incredibly moving and powerful.  So, included in the list should be Henry Mortensen, Buckethead, Mr. Travis probably helped with it, and any other performers listed.   Those two CDs will be passed around among my in-laws friends so how many are reached through it?  It\'s unknown, really!
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: oldfolkie on December 27, 2005, 04:02:07 pm
I think there\'s still a lot to be got from http://www.poetsagainstthewar.org/ where they\'ve been speaking their minds since before the current war began.

I had a hard time finding Amy Goodman too, until I realized that http://www.democracynow.org/index.pl uploads their current show and you can play it there. I watched the Zinn-Arnove program yesterday and was glad to have had the chance. It must have been a great event to attend.

Here in Canada we\'re in the throes of a federal election, but of course it doesn\'t have the global import of one in the USA. All we need to speak out against here is the usual corruption that power brings, and the insidious creep of the religious right into our political lives via the Conservative-Reform-Alliance Party (yep, known locally as "CRAP"). It\'s pretty hard to vote for the incumbent (corrupt) Liberals, though, and the New Democrats have almost as little credibility plus no hope of forming a government. Might have to vote Green this time, in protest -- it won\'t affect the result in my riding one way or another.  At least we\'re not at war with anybody, even if we\'re arguing a lot with our cousins south of the border... ::)

ETA: Spencer? You\'ve got part of it right, at least, and good for you for figuring it out so early! Living your life the best way you can is the best possible start. Looking around you and figuring out things you can do to help is another step. There is always hope, and there is always something we can do. Feeling powerless is the first step to letting those in power defeat you.  
:o oops, sorry for the rant  ;)
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Peace_On_Earth on December 27, 2005, 05:28:08 pm
Thanks oldfolkie for the uplifting words. I was beginning to feel pretty powerless after watching Syriana (I started the Syriana board yesterday on this site). I am the one who said she has no hope.

We used to be able to yank scoundrels out of governernment. That was why kings used to be afraid of the masses. Why can\'t we raise even one lick of fear in our leaders loosing their positions today? They just thumb their noses at us in modern times.

It\'s not just Bush though, for me, it was Clinton and Rwanda where we lost 1 million lives and the Black Hawk Down issues too. I\'m certified by the United Nations in International Humanitariam Law and the Law of Armed Conflict - and my heart is a pacifist 100%. I think there is always a way to work something out diplomatically and not through force.

If you have not seen the movie Hotel Rwanda, I recommend that one too. I studied that massacre to the point of tears. And the movie is a highly accurate depiction of how the world let Rwanda down. There is another little known film called "Gaza Strip" that maybe you guys might relate to also. It too is an accurate depiction of why we have Arab blood (which I have in me) angry at us. Visit the site here to learn more: http://www.littleredbutton.com/gaza/

Sorry for the hand wringing, but I am still working on finding my hope. It\'s in me somewhere....   :-/
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: phartacus on December 28, 2005, 01:40:36 am
QuoteI\'m certified by the United Nations in International Humanitariam Law and the Law of Armed Conflict - and my heart is a pacifist 100%. I think there is always a way to work something out diplomatically and not through force.

i watch a ton of c span and cable news networks and this really has me baffled. so since you are certified by the grand institution known as the united nations you might know better than me.....but i was wondering who al queda\'s main diplomat was and when was the last time he/she initiated some sort of dialog with the united states?
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Peace_On_Earth on December 28, 2005, 03:47:15 am
Hey phartacus,

Take a look at the conflict from the Arab world in a historical context back to the time of the crusdaes - there you might find when the Arab world initiated dialogue when the Western world invaded their lands. The Arabs told us then to get off their lands in our illegal occupation - this many years later we are still invading their space and calling Palestinian lands "disputed" territory instead of "occupied" much like we call the Iraq war diplomatic efforts to rid ourselves of phantom weapons of mass destruction rather just plain calling it the illegal occupation it is so the oil industry can fattern their pockets and rape America of its money by raising gas prices.

I was a Republican at the time of the first Bush election and felt a shift in the Republican Party when Cheney elected himself the VIP choice (Now I am a Democrat). But, my words are just my opinion, which in a democracy we are supposed to have varied views, something that is not really taking place in our government anymore. So, I\'m not saying you have to hang with my point of view.

Read on for more opinions:

Mr. Cheney\'s Imperial Presidency
December 23, 2005, © The New York Times
URL: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/23/opinion/23fri1.html

"Israel is the reason behind Iraq war"
12/26/2005 Al Jazeera
URL: http://www.aljazeeramagazine.com/cgi-bin/review/article_full_story.asp?service_ID=10238

"Palestinians Hit By Sonic Boom Air Raids"
Chris McGreal in Gaza
Thursday November 3, 2005 The Guardian
URL: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1607236,00.html

Telling it like it isn\'t
By Robert Fisk, ROBERT FISK
December 27, 2005, © Los Angeles Times
URL: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-fisk27dec27,0,6099761.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

And Mr. Bush\'s own words on his goals for America:
"make America less dependent on foreign sources of oil."

And in the end we have struck behind closed doors deals that are a cash cow for large corporate oil companies at the cost of thousands of American lives and tens of thousands of Iraqi lives. I think America is shouting at the Arab world rather than "striking a dialogue."
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: phartacus on December 28, 2005, 04:43:08 am
QuoteThe Arabs told us then to get off their lands in our illegal occupation

so it was european crusaders that justified bin ladens gang murdering thousands of american CITIZENS in a cowardly attack?
seriously though i disdain war/violence as much as anyone here but to think that murderous dictators such as hussein and religious zealots like bin laden can be dealt with through diplomatic means in pure delusion.
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Peace_On_Earth on December 28, 2005, 05:15:41 am
not really. There are so many other means of persuasion/pressure other than blowing someone\'s head off. And I did not say Bin Laden was justified. In fact it was a horrible day caused by an extremist ideaology that caused serious injury to America\'s psyche. It\'s easy to scare the Hell out of Americans now - me included. I flew to Washingtond DC in January 2002 and was scared out of my mind! But I did it anyway.

However, I am saying this is not a new conflict between extremist Islam and extremist Christian Fundamentalism. And, I am saying there is no difference between the Pope at that time (I am Catholic, so I am not inferring any offense) telling the military to go attack the Arabs during the crusades and Bin Laden telling his militants to go attack the U.S. on 9-11 and America telling its troops to go attack Arab soil in Iraq and Afghanistan and America supporting Israel\'s ofenses against the Arabs - this is a long standing historical battle. And there is no nation on the side of justice. That\'s all I am saying. And I feel hopeless at times that we can\'t seem to end it. And I feel America\'s foreign policies toward the so called thrid world are the reason we have these issues.  :(
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Aquabot on December 31, 2005, 07:13:09 pm
Quote

so it was european crusaders that justified bin ladens gang murdering thousands of american CITIZENS in a cowardly attack?
seriously though i disdain war/violence as much as anyone here but to think that murderous dictators such as hussein and religious zealots like bin laden can be dealt with through diplomatic means in pure delusion.

The US government could have had diplomatic dilog since the Bush family and the Ben Laden family were in contact for business. They could have had diplomatic dialog with Saddam Hussein since it\'s the US government that put him in place and supported him ( like they supported talibans in afghanistan) a while ago to fight against Iran.

There is no war (there has never been any war) waged to liberate people, it doesn\'t exist. War is always waged to dispossess other countries of their natural riches.
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Peace_On_Earth on January 01, 2006, 07:54:57 pm
AQUABOT WROTE:
There is no war (there has never been any war) waged to liberate people, it doesn\'t exist. War is always waged to dispossess other countries of their natural riches.


Hallelujah Amen! I said Hallelujah AMEN to recognizing war sucks and is merely for selfish purposes!
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: stuffyrandL on January 03, 2006, 04:03:26 pm
An aside to the whole Bin Laden issue.  He was in Afghanistan, not Iraq.  There is one reason the US is in Iraq and it\'s oil.  We, as Americans, were lied to by the administration as to why Iraq was happening.  If Bush and Co. had said "We\'re going into Iraq cause I want the oil.", would the American people have accepted it?  Heck no!  So, he makes up some poppycock about weapons of mass destruction.  The administration lied to us, plain and simple.

As far as 09/11/01.  The administration uses that day to justify anything and everything.  Yet they haven\'t caught the person behind the attacks.  Why is that?  Ooooh, that\'s right!  He\'s in Afghanistan.  And all our troops are busy protecting Bushie\'s oil in Iraq and Halliburton\'s interests there.  

I feel the war in Iraq is wrong for many reasons.  Besides the fact that we were lied to about why we were going and the fact that over two thousand of our people have died,  there are other fish we need to fry, namely bin Laden.  If our administration were so concerned with protecting us, they would be actively trying to find that poor excuse for humanity.  

I have such a problem with bin Laden because he was too much of a coward to be a suicide bomber himself.  Instead those young men on those planes were sacrificed while he hides like a rat instead of standing like a man and being accountable for his actions.  Not that different from our president and his friends, really!

Sorry for the rant but it really frosts me when people use September eleventh as a reason we\'re in Iraq.  It had nothing to do with Iraq!  
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: gkg on January 04, 2006, 11:32:04 pm
QuoteNot that different from our president and his friends, really!

Sorry for the rant but it really frosts me when people use September eleventh as a reason we\'re in Iraq.  It had nothing to do with Iraq!

right on, stuffy, right on!
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: edjane_maps on April 13, 2006, 09:54:20 pm
Hi my friends and don\'t forget of Viggo Mortensen,the voice of courage and the action of courage!!

www.percevalpress.com

  :-*
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: oldfolkie on April 29, 2006, 01:42:40 pm
How about my fellow-countryman (although he has lived for many years in the States), Neil Young?

Check out his site http://www.neilyoung.com/ where his new album "Living With War" is streaming.
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Bakeka on May 01, 2006, 02:57:15 pm
Hi, I have not posted in a while and I forgot my password... but I want to applaud Neil Young\'s latest work "Living with War".
  In trying to emulate him, I revised some of the lyrics to the song "Feel like I\'m Fixin to Die" By Country Joe and the Fish, of 60\'s war protest fame.

  One of the first songs I remember growing up was this song. It has always been in my active memory files, as it were...
 
  Have you checked out Neil Young\'s website? He has a new album out and its a free down load! I like the way that man thinks.
 
 I play guitar some, but I have a flat singing voice, for a girl... I think it would be good if someone would do this little ditty again...
 
  I slept little last night, so it gets a little out of sync in some places, but, it might work with some tweaking...
***************************************
Well come on all of you big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again,
He got himself in a terrible jam,
Fighting off Islam,
Put down your books and pick up a gun,
We\'re gonna have a whole lotta fun

1,2,3, what are we fighting for,
don\'t ask me I dot give a damn,
next stop is Tehran, Iran
5, 6, 7, open up them pearly gates
Aint no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we\'re all gonna die
 
Well come on wall street don\'t be slow,
Why man this is war go go go,
There\'s plenty good money to be made,
By supplying the army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if he drops the bomb
No one notices they are gone.


Alpha, Beta, Gamma
wasn\'t that the latest storm?
Don\'t tell me its gettin warm
 
Delta, Eplison, Zeta
if we keep r heads down in the sand
Rejoyce, it could be the end
 
Well come on generals let\'s move fast,
Your big chance is come at last,
Gotta go out and get that pres,
before all the oil is spent,
For he knows that peace can only be won,
"When you blow them all to kingdom come"


 
10, 9, 8
what happened to Watergate?
I asking ya to give a damn
it wasn\'t sadam
 
7,6,5, it shoulda been Gore
before pre-emptive war
 
3,2,1,
liftin off- no stellar ship
check out that radar blip
 
and its zero, omega, nill
aint nothin left
no need for govermnet,
 
these here are  the times to cry,
"You\'re gonna make us die"
 
the future aint no certain thing
lets make it worth living
 
uno, dos tres, come and take a stand
we know the Mexican\'s can
 
cinquo, seis, siete,
light a fire, activate
before the draft kicks in
don\'t say its not happenin,
howdy! aint no BBQ  on that table
 
 
Throw those hoodlums out of there
lest we despair.
Time is getting late
lets not lay prostrate
 
get out spread the word,
tipping point is not assured
less you see what happens next
lets throw them outta there
 
 
1,2,3, what are we fighting for,
don\'t ask me I dot give a damn,
next stop is Tehran, Iran
5, 6, 7, open up them pearly gates
Aint it  time to wonder why
the President gone an lied
 
This version by Kelly
(Original words and music by Country Joe and The Fish)
 
 
  
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: SantaStef on May 01, 2006, 04:34:02 pm
Oldfolkie,

I heard a session over the weekend on CBC about Neil Young.  He became frustrated with the youth of today because they are not singing about political issues (Bush and his entourage) and lobbying for impeachment, like in the 60\'s.  He felt he had to get his message out there.

This led me to thinking why the majority of new generation isn't more politically concerned or active.  Don't they get it?  I guess if the effect war has not touched your life you cannot relate or feel the implications....do they know how many babies are without families because of Bush?

This isn't a video game...Sorry...I'll stop there....too many emotions.

I just want to say "Thank You" to all the voices of America who stand for courage and action for a new government of tomorrow.

Stef
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: gkg on May 01, 2006, 05:36:37 pm
i see a few large problems...

first, some kids are apathetic; same reason they don\'t vote - they don\'t believe that their action would do any good, so they opt to do nothing.

second, some kids identify anti-war with hippies, pot and acid rock, completely missing the message in the protests - they see it as just another selfindulgence.  OK - i\'m a hippie at heart so why would they listen to me when i say that\'s just another cop-out, even the term cop-out is suspect to them.  they feel that to be patriotic you have to accept what the government tells you to be true, just as their religion tells them to accept what the church tells them as truth.  they are very scary.

third, so much of the press is in the pocket of the administration so if all they are getting their info from is the mainstream press they ain\'t getting the news.  as a journalism brat this one steams my ass big time.  journalism was supposed to be a bastion of truth - not up for the highest bidder with favors in his pocket and stock tips in his desk drawer.

speaking of journalism brats, Neil Young is one too.  i share his outrage and dispair.

nice redo, on the words Kelly.  i wonder if you ever heard Exene sing "the future is a war" - damn if on that one she wasn\'t just so freaking right.
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Bakeka on May 01, 2006, 06:40:48 pm
Having grown up with the developing technologies, and the growth of cable tv, it has occured to me that people today are just overwhelmed with input, from so many places.
    A lesson from my business writing class was simple: keep the message as short, clear and as easy to look at possible.
   If you can\'t understand the lyrics and the melody drones, you lose your chance.
   I think the kids in High School today, having grown up while this war has continued, may be the youth with the voice. I hope they find it soon.
   BTW, did any one hear anything about the march in NYC this past weekend? I must have missed it on CNN, despite waiting for it...
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Bakeka on May 01, 2006, 07:21:08 pm
A horror of a thought, but do you think if the kids of today were checking their draft numbers they might be little more concerned?

Iraq is not Iran, but this president sure is a loose cannon, IMHO. Let\'s not forget Afghanistan.

We probably are a little on the thin side as it is.

Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: D.O.D on May 01, 2006, 07:46:06 pm
Do everything in your power to prevent the reinstatement of the draft ,.  DOD
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Bakeka on May 01, 2006, 08:47:50 pm
absolutely. No draft, No way.
But, The kids need to get a clue as to what it its all about and where it could end up.
 I dreamed last night, during the small slumber I was able to manage,   that  I was being drafted.my next stop was Canada...
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: D.O.D on May 02, 2006, 12:45:50 pm
In 1946 I dreamed that I was never discharged from the Army, I just sat in the barracks year after year.  DOD
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Bakeka on May 02, 2006, 05:26:37 pm
My Parental unit, to borrow a phrase, occasionally dreams he is back in the South Pacific in a fox hole... growing up, those nights were quite exciting in our house.

  Looking in his "commemerative Yearbook" from the 4th Marine division and seeing the full color pictures of the flame throwers and the occasional body on fire, I was an early opponent of the horrors of war. I think we get some of that memory passed along to us also, in our DNA, that mysterious and as yet un-understood phenomenon we are built by.
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Travis on May 02, 2006, 06:27:55 pm
I think it worth mentioning here, because he won\'t, that our own DOD was a part of the Normandy invasion and got out of the army the hard way, by being shot in the chest while with Pattons army. So he brings the weight of being a Purple Heart awarded veteran of WWII to his opinions.
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: sngwthme on May 02, 2006, 06:28:37 pm
Quote BTW, did any one hear anything about the march in NYC this past weekend? I must have missed it on CNN, despite waiting for it...

That would be because it was not there, and if it were it was more likely less then a second of air time.  :(   Afterall it was an an anti-war rally why would that get any press?  
I was not there as I am well over 2000 miles away, however favorable reports from some who participated stated the turn out was amazing and the march was very peaceful. Estimated to be well over 350,000 people attended. I don\'t know about you, but to me that makes a huge statement.  
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: gkg on May 02, 2006, 06:59:10 pm
Quote...by being shot in the chest...
[glb]shiver[/glb]

Travis, i think you\'re right, i am sure he would never have mentioned it.  that DOD is a marvel - i knew he had time and experience in the weight of his opinions, but of course no idea the depth of that.  thank you for adding to the perspective.  he\'d already earned my respect and admiration, but now i see yet another aspect of the man.

yes, sngwthme, it speaks volumes to me too - the whole movement is starting to gain and that does seem to scare some aspects of the media.  i think that the very fact that folks with DOD\'s level of experience, like those of the Generals stepping forward, etc., are starting to speak up loud and clear from various corners of the country makes the administration a little nervous, though not nearly nervous enough.

we need change, radical change, and we need it sooner rather than later if we\'re to save lives.
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Bakeka on May 02, 2006, 10:04:32 pm
Thanks for mentioning that Travis. I wonder, DOD, how old were you when you signed on the dotted line? (you don\'t have to answer...)I think my Grandmother had to give her blessing to my DOD so he could join the Marines in his 16th year.
  I have always been so proud of his courage. That makes it  so hard to hear the words of this President say "we" are making the world safe for Democracy.  I feel "he" is wasting such wonderful lives...
  But, my father, once a dedicated Republican, and a man who gave generously of himself as a community volunteer,  calls it as he sees it. He saw the writing on the wall with this guy: How big business would run amok, oil prices would go up and environmental concerns hamstringed.
  He should probably speak his own opinions, \'cept his typing is kinda rough! But he has always made so much sense...He has been lambasting this administration even before they took office. But, his new wife, a Bible touting Christian, is of the mind that this war is about saving the world. Comparing our role in it to the role that the Russians played in WWII in keeping the Nazis
occupied while we prepared to enter the war and save Great Britain...
  I find my greatest arguments against people of that "marching-christian-soldier" mindset is Christ\'s own teachings. There are too many people who are willing to forget about that aspect of their religion.
  Anyway, Dad was discharged via the hospital also...  blown up with  an ammo dump on Saipan...I am sure DOD\'s would have some stories to share about a time so much different than these...
   Sorry to get sentimental here...I have so much respect for the "Greatest Generation"...
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: D.O.D on May 03, 2006, 01:39:59 pm
Bakeka-  Sorry that this space must be occupied with such dour subject matter... let\'s hope to get on to music again soon.  I was drafted into the army one month after my 18th birthday, right after  high school graduation... of course, there was massive support for the war effort, we amost looked forward to it. I was certain that I would be fighting along side of  John Wayne and be home for supper. I came home to stay 3 years later, My combat experience was horrifying but very brief. I was shot thru the shoulder and spent the next year in an army hospital.    I can recall the young 17 year old volunteers for the Marines; thousands of them died in the Pacific... often just six months after H.S. graduation. Bad times !  DOD
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Bakeka on May 03, 2006, 03:40:33 pm
I would imagine they were very  bad times. While not wishing to stir up memories that you wish to lay to rest, I am determined  that it not be forgotten.
  Too much is easily brushed aside these days, and I honestly must say I think the Pres had the country thinking that this would be "war-light" like so much diet soda...and that we were morally on the high ground because we spoke the name of the Christian God.
   I know my Dad is open with his discussion of his war experiences and I hope that I have not been pouring salt in any wounds....
  You are right about the need to get back to the lighter side. We are fortunate we have the time, and good blessings of  music and humanities in general.  For me, that is where the spirit grows.
  and of course, in meeting nice people...  :)

something for you by Lord Byron:

How in the noon of night that pibroch thrills,
savage and shrill!
But with the breath which fills
Their mouintain pipe,
so fill the mountaineers
With the fierce native daring which instills
the stiring memory of a thousand years.
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: SantaStef on May 03, 2006, 04:16:45 pm
Nicely said.  This brings back a story about my Grandfather, who was not part of the war.  He was the oldest of three sons and was required to remain on the farm to run it while the war continued.  Although he never mentioned it directly, he felt guilty about this.  His two brothers left to fight the war.  They returned, but one brother became a cattle rustler and a wanted man....he was the black sheep of the family...and to this day they don\'t speak his name; even though he\'s been gone for decades.

 It is amazing how choices we make in life leave a lasting legacy for those who work so hard to give others a better life, we must never forget.  My Grandfather recited poetry and one of the poems he would frequently share is the following.  He is no longer with us, but it continues to inspire me.

The Road Not Taken

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that, the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Robert Frost
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: buswolley on May 03, 2006, 10:49:24 pm
I am sure some of you have heard of the game "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon."  It really does work.  I can connect to him in 3 moves and in 5 completely different moves, and I've never been in a movie.  So you may ask yourself what does this have to do with 'Voices of Courage'  Good question - if it really does take only 6 people to connect yourself to any other person in the world then why not start your own revolution.  So here I go...

To Whom It May Concern:

I will no longer blame the absent voter.  I will no longer blame the ambivalent adult.  I will no longer blame the apathetic youth of America.  I will instead stand up on June 14th (America's Flag Day) and make my voice heard.  I will fly my American Flag proudly, for I am a proud American, however I will fly my flag upside down in protest against the war in Iraq.  Maybe on that day our elected officials will take notice.  They will, on June 14th, see a visual representation of my distress and outrage.

"The flag is flown upside down only as a distress signal." - US Flag code (www.usflag.org)

Six Degrees of Separation: roughly, the notion that anyone can form a chain of personal contacts leading to any other person, with no more than six links in the chain.

I urge you to send this to everyone on your e-mail list, mail it to friends and family, and place it in mail boxes in your neighborhood.  Remember, it only takes 6 people to touch the world!

Peace to all,
Insert your name

NOTE: I have not sent this out yet, but I intend to.  I am not sure as to the flag thing.  I would really like to see a financial boycott, like LULAC, however I don't think that is realistic.  This can still be revised, because only you fine people and my Dad has seen this (of course there are 403 of you! : -)  In all seriousness, any suggestions or support would be greatly appreciated!  
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: gkg on May 03, 2006, 11:40:49 pm
i think it\'s a good idea, but in all fairness it IS a distress signal and could confuse some cops and others who know that into thinking you need help.  of course some others may just think you\'re retarded...  ;)

i intend to fly my flag, upright, but under it tie a hand made flag with an appropriate epitaph - "IMPEACH - REMOVE - JAIL" and "NO MORE BLOOD FOR OIL" come to mind, courtesy of the wonderful t-shirts from Perceval Press.

i suppose i could tie a ribbon - i am sure there is a color that has been designated as anti war - but i\'m not trendy enough to know what color that is.
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: Bakeka on May 04, 2006, 11:52:06 pm
Somemore people found their voices... in Georgia, no less. Rummy got blasted again.
Title: Re: Voices of Courage
Post by: oldfolkie on May 05, 2006, 12:48:09 pm
Wow! With Colbert and the folks in Georgia, this topic is hopping!

I hope for all our sakes that more people find this kind of courage.

We\'re going to need to find it here, too, now that we have a "baby bush" regime.   :\'(