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Shadows Between the Sky repress?

Started by DroidHunter13, October 10, 2012, 01:26:45 am

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DroidHunter13

I promise Travis that this will be the last time I ever post this question, but I was just thinking about it. Is there any speculation on when Shadows will be repressed?

Travis

I see there have been a number of speculations going on about whats happening with Cd's we produce and sell here.
First nothing fundamental has changed. That is I continue to work with and record music with all of my friends.
If anything has changed it's really the nature of the music business. In a nut shell, no one buys CD's any more, at least not enough to justify the cost of the studio time used and the pressing costs.
I usually press anything I produce for TDRS even if it never recoups the costs. I'm rethinking that. Bucketheadland is rethinking that too as is everybody who makes and sells CDs. And thats for the first pressing. As I've said before, often the first pressing will eventually sell out but a second pressing will never recoup the costs.  I know you see things listed for stupid prices on ebay and think there is a market for these but really that is a very few, a handful, that pay that kind of money.

So, whats going to happen? Really at the moment music is free. If it's free, why pay for it? Honestly, I don't know. I either record and leave it on my hard drive, which I'm doing now or upload it where it becomes free. I love making music and I want to share what I do and I probably always will, but self funded projects are a poor business model and very limited in the time and energy you can put into them. I think a model like Spotify or Netflix for video makes the most sense. A monthly  fee. But there has to be a good selection and value for the customer and in the case of video getting rights for streaming from a old school mindset is a problem and for Spotify the payments made to the artists are barley more than they make from free downloads. Either way, I think the CD is only for the hard core collector and in any fan base thats very limited. For most musicians touring is the only income potential, and that is expensive and needs to be done carefully if you want to make a living.

What we are seeing here is a massive transitional period for all digital content.  For me, I'm really enjoying making and recording music. I'm doing some of the most interesting and rewarding music I have ever made and everyday I look forward to getting to the studio and doing more. I can't ever imaging not doing that. But how I or anyone involved in any art form makes a living doing it is going to change big time.  Among my peers it's always a topic of conversation.  So.... I'm working on it.



beau810

Excellent insight Travis, and thank you for it.

As a musician I understand completely and as a collector it saddens me to think that the digital world is winning. 
Support underground music!!!

MuldeR

October 10, 2012, 11:42:23 pm #3 Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 12:11:10 am by MuldeR
Quote from: beau810 on October 10, 2012, 08:14:10 pm...and as a collector it saddens me to think that the digital world is winning.


I totally second that!

For me it's still a big difference whether you just quickly listen to some MP3 files on the computer/laptop (which I do too, of course) or whether you put a CD into your CD-Player and take your time to listen to a record in its entirety. Probably that's because I more think in "records" (albums) than in individual songs. At the same time it seems most people nowadays grab one song from here and one song from there and just throw them onto the playlist...

@Travis:
At work we have a "machine" that produces CD's. It's pretty much a normal PC (running on Windows) with several CD/DVD burners and some kind of "robot arm" mounted on the front. It will burn a huge number of CD's automatically, in an "unattended" way. You just configure the job to burn a certain number of discs (like 100) an give it a go. The rest happens completely automatically. Most important: It also has a very good "thermal" disc printer, which will print the discs right after they have been burned. Again fully automatically. Yes, it doesn't produce real "pressed" CD's, only CD-R's. But nowadays there are CD-R's with an "almost silver" data-side. If burned and printed with the "machine" we use at work, 9 out of 10 people won't be able to tell the difference from a "pressed" CD. Now, did you ever consider getting such a machine? It's not THAT expensive. Probably too expensive for a private person, but quite affordable for a record studio, I suppose. And it would certainly be suitable to re-release albums that can't be made available on disc otherwise. At work we use that machine, for example, to produce demo/promo discs, like ~100 discs every time. Well, just a though.

Last but not least: A lot of people thought Vinyl was dead when the CD became popular. But it didn't die after all! Sure, it's not the same as it used to be, but it definitely has its niche. Hopefully the same will happen with CD's.
My free software projects: http://muldersoft.com/

Travis

We have CDr burners and that's how we make some of the box sets. However, we have gone over this a number of times and most people don't want CDrs.  CDr's do have problems playing on car stereos and different players and we do have a much larger return rate on those from people that have trouble with them. Also, downloaded CDs can be had at lossless sample size so it's not like listening to MP3s.
For that matter if your interested in CDrs, everyone now has the ability to download lossless and burn their own and print the art. We're not really needed anymore if that's what your looking for.

I appreciate the input though and I'm listening if that's what enough people want, that's doable.

DroidHunter13

I third what Beau810 said! I'm the kind of person who just HAS to own CD's. Travis, you had mentioned that since music is free, then why pay for it...I just thought I'd say I pay for the music because the artist deserves the money.

Anyways, I wouldn't mind purchasing Shadows with a CDr instead of a regular CD, as long as I have all the artwork and music to go along with it. Another thing I thought of that would be cool and would probably attract more buyers would be to sell Limited Edition signed copies of Shadows, or maybe even throw in a bonus track, as long as Buckethead agrees to do any of that. Now, I don't know if you still keep in touch with Buckethead, but I just thought I'd throw out the idea.

X

Those ideas aren't new either. However, I've actually warmed up to the idea of using CD-Rs since they actually last much longer than I had anticipated, and are replaceable yourself once you have the information on a computer. I don't play CDs much in my car anyway.

Travis

How would you feel about a thumb drive with all the art work and maybe even 24 bit wav files?  Burn a disc if you need them. The possibility of extended goodies, art and video.  My car stereo has a USB input on the front and I just plug a thumb drive in.  However, I still see the future as download only.

Tempbucketdog

These are sad times for the music industry. Not only for Tdrs and buckethead but also for upcoming talents. It seems the talent is getting better and better as the years progress but there is not market for them anymore... All of these mind boggling talents will be essentially left hanging with no exposure because of theifs screwing up the industry.

So if you have ever uploaded a song to YouTube, a pirate/share site, ect ect. You can thank yourself for f**king up people's life's work and art from being a viable source of income, to just a hobby. Shame on you... I've only downloaded Giant Robot NTT because it's almost impossible to get a hard copy, but in turn I have spent a small fortune on ALL my other buckethead music.

I don't blame them at all for being skeptical about repressing SBTS.

Nubbins

After the way everyone whined for the Slaughterhouse on the Prairie and A Real Diamond in the Rough re-presses, only to have most people bail when it came time to actually pay up, I wouldn't blame Travis and Buckethead if they never did another repress. I would imagine it's just not worth it financially.

Slaw_Slinger

Quote from: Nubbins on October 12, 2012, 01:36:08 pm
After the way everyone whined for the Slaughterhouse on the Prairie and A Real Diamond in the Rough re-presses, only to have most people bail when it came time to actually pay up, I wouldn't blame Travis and Buckethead if they never did another repress. I would imagine it's just not worth it financially.



Agreed

beau810

Quote from: Travis on October 11, 2012, 03:10:36 pm
How would you feel about a thumb drive with all the art work and maybe even 24 bit wav files?  Burn a disc if you need them. The possibility of extended goodies, art and video.  My car stereo has a USB input on the front and I just plug a thumb drive in.  However, I still see the future as download only.


Travis,
I think this is a great idea for releases that are unavailable.  The idea of extra content is enticing for a person who already have the recording.  I would purchase it just to have all of that info on file because CDs do not last forever.

I would still love to see the production of CDs as a first and only run (1000.)  The first 100 to 200 could have something about them that makes them limited and would cost just a bit more.  My band made 100 CDs ourselves and with what we put into it and the profit paid for the 1000 we got from Disc Makers.  The first 100 had all the lyrics and extra art too.  Now any time we sell a cd its pure profit... of course we still have hundreds of cds but we are not trying to make a living out of it either.  I guess what I'm saying is that if you did something similar by making the first couple hundred of a run a bit different it would increase the demand.  Then after that demand is complete you'll have to sell the rest of that first and only run.  Then when all of those fans who were unable to get that only run could purchase a thumbdrive or a download with the extra content.

I'm sure your thinking... Extra content?  More than what I already do?  But this might be a way to keep a better flow of income coming your way.  It also scares me that no one has posted anything on this topic either... I dont know? What do you think?

Support underground music!!!

tropicalrooster

As I have mentioned in the original thread, if this very album become available again, I will get two copies.

I can prepay them right now.

Tempbucketdog

What amount of prepays would justify a repressing? 100-200 people? Again I don't blame Tdrs for shunning the idea, but out of curiosity what type of figure would you need? Ever thought of a super limited run with extra content and additional album art for incentive? There's a way this would work to make it a profitable endeavor... Maybe not a $100k endeavor, but there's nothing wrong with making a few extra grand here and there...

Mattsie

I think we should get a Kickstarter project started if we want to ever get a reprint, I just don't want to miss out on getting my hands on this beautiful album