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is anyone surprised?

Started by gkg, July 02, 2007, 11:12:26 pm

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gkg

really, can anyone be said to be surprised by Bush waiving away Libby\'s jail time?

no matter where one falls in the range of opinion on Bush and his administration, can anyone really not have seen it coming?
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

oldfolkie

I have long since used up my surprise quota when it comes to Dubya & the Axis of Evil (Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rove). The only thing that might surprise me yet, would be if they DON\'T make some move towards establishing a dictatorship before November 2008.  They\'ve taken all the preliminary steps...
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity. ~  R.A. Heinlein

buswolley

I don't know which is more pathetic - that he did it or that I'm not shocked.

I love this - Cheney is refusing to obey President Bush's Executive Order 12958, which compels White House personnel to regularly inform the National Archives about material they've classified.  Cheney office is claiming that he's not an "entity within the executive branch" and so is not governed by Bush's order.  Since the vice president also serves as president of the Senate, Cheney argues, he belongs to neither the executive branch nor the legislative - and thus is not bound by the rules of either.    

Quote of the week:  While saying farewell to the outgoing Prime Minister, Bush spoke enviously of Blair's communications skills.  "This guy can really [pause]...he can talk," said Bush.  "He's much more kind of lofty and eloquent than I am."

gkg

the whole situation is scary and sad... i\'m afraid i\'m with oldfolkie in thinking something even more wicked than a rigged election may be in our future... what would really surprise me is if suddenly the lid ripped off the whole smelly can of fetted crap and they all got carted away - i dream of it, but cannot truly imagine it happening.  that makes me saddest of all.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

phartacus

August 16, 2007, 10:30:29 pm #4 Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 10:30:47 pm by phartacus
QuoteI have long since used up my surprise quota when it comes to Dubya & the Axis of Evil (Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rove). The only thing that might surprise me yet, would be if they DON\'T make some move towards establishing a dictatorship before November 2008.  They\'ve taken all the preliminary steps...
which preliminary steps do you speak of....specifics please. and when the new president takes office in jan 09 will you not only admit youre demented but also finally get the help you need?

phartacus

bump

oldfolkie im still waiting for an answer. i even did some searching on my own and cannot find any evidence of bush seeking to steal another term. you have got me really worried here cause i cannot stomache another 4 years of bush (or another 4 years of a clinton for that matter). please enlighten me.

gkg

from pharticus\' original post:
Quoteand when the new president takes office in jan 09 will you not only admit youre demented but also finally get the help you need?

why would anyone bother to answer such a post?  

nice to know you too do not want another 4 years of Bush, but your attitude makes it unlikely you\'re going to engage anyone in actual conversation - it doesn\'t seem to be what you come here for.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

buswolley

September 13, 2007, 09:13:08 pm #7 Last Edit: September 13, 2007, 11:21:37 pm by buswolley
She didn't actually say he was seeking to extend his presidency.  She said he has set the ground work.  Actually doing it and setting up a system that can be manipulated are two very different things.  Even if he didn't do it with the intention gaining an extended presidential term he has certainly achieved that potential.  It seems to me that his motivation is clearly to gain more executive power, and with this knocking the balance of governmental authority in his favor.  However, even if you believe the man to be sainted he has set up a system were anyone holding that office could theoretically (all though with much difficulty) bring about a dictatorship.

This argument is found mostly in the way our current government has set up the Patriot Act - and he is not the only guilty party.  It takes two to tango.  The most disturbing point of the act is that any citizen or non-citizen identified as a threat to our country can be held indefinitely.    The parameters for holding a person are very broad and ill defined.  

Second is the way our current system is set up to collect information.  They have slowly made it easier to collect information against any citizen under the guise of national security.  Through the enactment of new laws and presidential signing statements our government has stripped away many of our civil rights, such as search and seizure.  Again, because the definitions are too broad.  Example: if you are a collector of guns and write a concerned letter to your congressman, the government can decide you are a national threat, and confiscate all your guns.  You have no legal rights that allow you to retrieve your property.  "Don't be daft this would never happen.  We have a constitutional right to bear arms!"  It has already happened.

There are many more seeming innocuous, but extremely significant, ways in which he has surreptitiously diverted power.  Some of which we may never discover until it is too late.  Even if you give him the benefit of the doubt - he has, without a doubt, set the ground work.

With all this said - I am by no means an expert, and am very willing to concede I may not see the picture clearly.  I will be happy to read and discuss your view points.  However, in the past you have not played well with others.  If you choose the road of belittlement I will take my toys and no longer play with you.

phartacus

i guess the thing that bothers me most is the common complaints from the left is that bush steals elections and is going to somehow become a dictator while you have chavez down there in venezuela doing just that and not a word is uttered. and then there is the america is imperialistic and steals the worlds resources crap while putin makes a grab for the north pole for its resources and still the left remains silent. and you wonder why i think you are all demented? its simple bush derangement syndrome.

buswolley

See this is were your assumption about my political views are stilted not to mention your view about most, what you would call, radical lefts.  

I agree with you whole heartedly.  

First -- I don't believe Bush stole the election by ill means.  I believe that he won the election through a flawed system (but that is for another thread and I know we've already been down that road.)  Also, I don't think Bush is setting up a dictatorship.  I think his motivations are, for the most part, financially driven.  And when I say "Bush" I don't mean just the man himself.  However, he is the one in charge, even if he is not pushing the buttons.  

Second -- I abhor Chavez.  I don't believe that because he is speaking very publicly against the American government and the war that he is by any means a respectable leader.  I hold little admiration for Americans that are clamoring to his side, because he has the biggest megaphone.  I didn't notice any stars headed over to shake hands with the French Prime Minister when he publicly declared this war an atrocity.  Ok, that might have been a little catty.  I'm sure Sean Penn speaks well of me and I really haven't investigated his agenda.  

For Pres. Chavez to point an imperialistic finger at America is beyond ridicules.  It's the pot calling the kettle black.  Just ask Peru or maybe its Bolivia.  I don't recall where he's getting his crude oil from...I think maybe Bolivia...to lazy to go find out...anyway...

Once again I agree with you - Putin, as you put it, grab for oil in the artic circle is as much about making money for his government, as the war is about making money for ours.  It is horrifically ironic that a major reason why they can now plant a flag on the bottom of the artic ocean is global warming caused by the human race's insatiable need to consume.

And don't even get me started on China and Africa!

When you see a leftist pointing a finger at their own government, perhaps if you look deeper, you will see a person who is willing to point a finger at anyone trying to control resources with little regards to consequence.

gkg

personally, i do have issues with Chavez, yes, but that wasn\'t the topic at hand.

as for the theft of the elections - there have been many articles and books that have been written about the last two elections.

beyond those events, many of the legal changes with respect to declarations of states of emergency, etc. are indeed a ground work that leave us open to any sitting president warping it to suit their ego.  i don\'t find it a large surprise that this particular president was the one to start that slide... what i fervently hope is that the next one will work swiftly to put back in place all the checks and balances and honor the congressional power in regard to declaration of war.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

buswolley

September 13, 2007, 10:35:27 pm #11 Last Edit: September 13, 2007, 11:08:44 pm by buswolley
I am aware of the arguments regarding the elections, but haven't really investigated them fully enough to form an opinion.  That is why, until I am educated on the subject I have to believe (or maybe I should say cross my fingers, close my eyes tight, and pray) that he did not steel the election through electronic sabotage.  

I am a strong believer, when it comes to conspiracy theories, in Achems Zazor -- all else being equal the true answer is usually the simplest one.

Yes, I so hope so too.  I don't think Bush is stupid enough to hold on to his power past his term, but who knows what lays in wait after him...

gkg

ha!  it\'s a matter of timing - my post was meant as an answer to phartacus, not you buswolley - sorry if it came off that way!!

well done... i loved your response.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

buswolley

September 13, 2007, 11:16:22 pm #13 Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 05:25:04 pm by buswolley
No apology necessary!  I didn't think you were chiding me.  I hope you didn't think the same of my comments.  I think the Bush elections are one of those "God questions."  You know -- "So, God, who really killed Kennedy?"  I wish there was a definitive answer, but until then for my own sanity I have to be a pragmatist, or is it optimist, or just plan bamboozled.  

And thanks - It's nice to know when I'm not just talking out my ass.  I excel at that.

gkg

no, no, i didn\'t think that at all!

you\'re not talking out your ass.  i just wish it were possible to get answers here on earth that we could be 100% certain of...

i\'m sitting here listening to the state of the war address... it\'s sad how obvious it is that he\'s reading everything from the teleprompter, at a jagged and clumsy pace.  i keep looking to see who\'s pulling the strings, but the mullions of the window seem to hide the strings.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved