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president suspends constitution today

Started by phartacus, November 03, 2007, 09:42:43 pm

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phartacus

pakistani president suspends constitution
 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,307857,00.html

cant say that im surprised by the silence of the hate bush crowd that infests this board. old folkie how do you feel about this, disappointed it wasnt bush doing it so you could feel validated? after all you are the one who is so worried about civil liberties and what not and in your little demented world im sure you can come up with a valid reason why this is ok and bush continues to be the biggest oppressor in the world...im eagerly awaiting your response.

phartacus

7 views and no comment. i suppose that if a christian, republican, or bush cant be bashed then there is no problem to be discussed.  

coolwalking

Firstly, Fox News? Eww...

Secondly, why bring Bush into this? It\'s about Pakistan..

Thirdly, Why do you need to see someone else doing something worse so that you\'ll feel bush isn\'t a tyrant?

This is a line:
----

This is a bigger line:
------------------------

Is the first line now not a line?

phartacus

November 06, 2007, 11:51:10 pm #3 Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 11:56:52 pm by phartacus
Firstly, Fox News? Eww...

its an AP story written by some faceless journalist so whats the difference if i had linked CNN\'s or MSNBC\'s?
oh thats right fox news is a right wing shill organazation and the mere sight of it makes liberals heads explode. the dirty secret is they have more open and honest liberals on there than any other network news org has.

 
Secondly, why bring Bush into this? It\'s about Pakistan..

you obviously havent been around this board long enough to realize that im the only dissenting voice here. stick around, watch closely and you might catch on to my posting style.
 
Thirdly, Why do you need to see someone else doing something worse so that you\'ll feel bush isn\'t a tyrant?

i dont think bush is a tyrant, sorry i know this boggles your mind cause you obviously get stripped searched everyday, arrested with no habaes corpus weekly, laura and the twins listening in to your phone calls to grandma. cheney analy searching you for whatever it is you feel you need to hide up there etc etc, but im afraid i dont have to endure any of these hardships so i just dont see bush as a tyrant sorry.



seriously though old folkie i know you see this and im waiting, cmon i wanna hear you lament about how not only should a movie be made about the death of pakistani pres but also be celebrated by movie audiences worldwide. cmon i know you got some hatred deep down there in the reserve tank you can muster.  


quote by oldfolkie: I\'m attending TIFF again this year, but don\'t know if I\'ll have a chance to get to a showing of this one. Somehow I can\'t see it being a big hit in the States...although perhaps it should be? 

coolwalking

November 07, 2007, 03:54:10 am #4 Last Edit: November 07, 2007, 05:05:21 am by coolwalking
Quoteoh thats right fox news is a right wing shill organazation and the mere sight of it makes liberals heads explode.
Well I was thinking more of just plain shoddy journalism (I don\'t know if you know of 4chan, but I\'ll just summarise by saying that almost every sentence of that report is false). I wasn\'t talking about the article, I think I actually wrote that part of my reply before I even read the article.  It was just about Fox News in general. I also didn\'t see the "Associated Press" text.

And yes, if I had to pick between conservative and liberal, I would be very much liberal.

Quotei dont think bush is a tyrant, sorry i know this boggles your mind cause you obviously get stripped searched everyday, arrested with no habaes corpus weekly, laura and the twins listening in to your phone calls to grandma. cheney analy searching you for whatever it is you feel you need to hide up there etc etc, but im afraid i dont have to endure any of these hardships so i just dont see bush as a tyrant sorry.
I don\'t care that it hasn\'t happened to me, just that they\'re allowed to do it in the first place.

Disclaimer: I\'m not American.

phartacus

ok that link was to a FOX network local affiliate. the fox network and FOX news while owned by the same parent company are 2 different things entirely.

And yes, if I had to pick between conservative and liberal, I would be very much liberal.

sure thats understandable. liberalism is easy, it requires knee jerk responces and while it solves nothing as long as people get the impression you care you can feel better about yourself. conservatism on the other hand requires thought and actual solutions to problems.


please stop derailing my thread. i made this with one thing in mind and that is to hear at least one rabid bush hater on this board condemn the actions of another world leader besides bush. and so far im quite disappointed but not surprised in the least that nobody has said how this deal in pakistan is not good at all.

coolwalking

Quoteliberalism is easy, it requires knee jerk responces and while it solves nothing as long as people get the impression you care you can feel better about yourself. conservatism on the other hand requires thought and actual solutions to problems.
I don\'t where you\'ve pulled this from, I just like being able to do what I want to.

Wikipedia
QuoteLiberalism refers to a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal.

Quoteplease stop derailing my thread.
Ok fine, as long as you stop saying things I want to express an opinion about.

gkg

I\'m sorry to be late responding to this - I have been rather busy.

I agree that the whole Pakistan situation is heinous, though I was pleased to see that Bhutto\'s house arrest has at least been ended.  I see he claims that the suspension will end in a month.  I\'ll believe that when I see it.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

oldfolkie

Life in the real world delayed me too, gkg.

I agree that the current situation in Pakistan is deplorable, as is the ongoing situation in Iraq, Myanmar, Darfur, and numerous other places, on all continents. I share the skepticism that the Pakistan situation will be solved quickly. However there is room for optimism. Why not hope, after all?

Anywhere there is war or tyranny there will be a range of inhumanities including torture ("waterboarding"), false arrest (Maher Arar, just one example of many), injustice (profiling of travellers border officials don\'t like the "look" of), and lies ("WOMD"). I have only given examples from the country I\'m most familiar with. I\'m sure there are similar ones for others.

Do I suggest that any of the countries under discussion in this thread is currently operating under a tyranny? Well, here\'s one definition of tyrant:

"a harsh and cruel ruler who places his/her own interests or the interests of a small oligarchy over the best interests of the general population which they govern or control"

I leave it to you, phartacus, to draw your own conclusions about my views, since you seem so well able to do so. I don\'t think anyone else here needs it spelled out either -- most of the members here are intelligent and discerning.

Should not ALL tyrants be opposed, and if possible, deposed?
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity. ~  R.A. Heinlein

phartacus

I agree that the current situation in Pakistan is deplorable, as is the ongoing situation in Iraq, Myanmar, Darfur, and numerous other places, on all continents.

yea and its too bad you never run to the computer to bash these world leaders but you\'ll sit there and bash my country and get all wet in the knickers over a movie about the assassination of my president. i mean this with all sincerity lady...you\'re sick and you need some help. and as far as waterboardeing goes...the story is we (the USA) have used it three times in 6 years. im not sure i wanna believe this as i think its used more frequently and quite frankly im ok with this. while terrifying as it may be i dont think it amounts to torture and it doesnt bother me one bit that the mastermind of 9/11 was waterboarded. but i know that will never make sense to you cause you think bush flew the planes with remote control.    

coolwalking

November 11, 2007, 11:16:31 am #10 Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 11:22:40 am by coolwalking
Quotei think its used more frequently and quite frankly im ok with this. while terrifying as it may be i dont think it amounts to torture and it doesnt bother me one bit that the mastermind of 9/11 was waterboarded.
Wikipedia
QuoteNumerous experts have described this technique as torture[6][7][8][9][10][11][12]. Some nations have also criminally prosecuted individuals for performing waterboarding, including the United States[13].

*Suspected* mastermind. There is no way in hell that this should be allowed for a suspect. He\'s fucking innocent until proven guilty. It\'s as simple as that.

You shouldn\'t torture people for court-admissible information anyway, it\'s not scientifically valid - people say anything under pressure. It\'s like testing whether a hat is orange by doing:
1. Pick up hat.
2. Paint hat orange.
3. Check if hat is orange.

Quotebut i know that will never make sense to you cause you think bush flew the planes with remote control.
Well I don\'t believe that stuff. If it was a conspiracy, I further doubt that Bush was involved. I think he\'s simply a puppet for his corporate buddies - nothing more, nothing less. Have you read/seen The Manchurian Candidate? Kinda the same thing, but they just pay him off instead of brainwashing.

gkg

November 11, 2007, 02:32:47 pm #11 Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 02:40:29 pm by gkg
Phartacus, So much of it what gets you all twisted up is just a distraction... people have the right to create movies about their ideas, whaterver your opinion of them.  However, there ARE things happening right here in the US that we should be addressing - including things like Donald Kerr trying to get us used to the idea that as American citizens we aren\'t going to have a right to true privacy anymore.  He\'s right of course - once that genie was out of the bottle, we were f\'cked.  We may have a right to privacy, but it doesn\'t truly exist any longer.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071111/ap_on_go_ot/terrorist_surveillance


Ah - and I knew that whole "one month" thing in Pakistan was just so much smoke...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071111/ap_on_re_as/pakistan
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

oldfolkie

Quoteyea and its too bad you never run to the computer to bash these world leaders but you\'ll sit there and bash my country and get all wet in the knickers over a movie about the assassination of my president. i mean this with all sincerity lady...you\'re sick and you need some help. and as far as waterboardeing goes...the story is we (the USA) have used it three times in 6 years. im not sure i wanna believe this as i think its used more frequently and quite frankly im ok with this. while terrifying as it may be i dont think it amounts to torture and it doesnt bother me one bit that the mastermind of 9/11 was waterboarded. but i know that will never make sense to you cause you think bush flew the planes with remote control.    

Well, phartacus, I attempted to provide my honest opinion in my post, as not so courteously requested in yours, but I am confirmed in my opinion that you are nothing but a hot empty wind as your user name suggests. I find you and your lame rhetoric laughable.

I suggest that when judging other people\'s opinions you first examine your own. A chance remark I made a long time ago about a fictional film appears to have inflamed you to the point of insult. Too bad. Wet in the knickers? You wish!

As for the question of torture, ONCE is too many times. Your government has crossed many lines. Sadly, this is only one.

If you\'ve been around TDRS much yourself, you might have noticed I\'ve not been posting much of anything in recent months. Anti-Dubya or otherwise. But then, I have a rich and fulfilling real life.

Signing off on this topic.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity. ~  R.A. Heinlein

phartacus

but I am confirmed in my opinion that you are nothing but a hot empty wind as your user name suggests.

Make fun of my name all you want im a wacky guy and dont mind a little self derprecating humor so disapproval from you means absolutely nothing.

A chance remark I made a long time ago about a fictional film appears to have inflamed you to the point of insult. Too bad. Wet in the knickers? You wish!

Chance remark my ass. The fact is you pondered why more americans wouldnt like to see a movie about the assassination of their elected leader and to me madam thats beyond disgusting. And as far as me wishing you get wet in the britches over it, I honestly wish you and all those like you wouldnt go gaga over such trash like that film.

As for the question of torture, ONCE is too many times. Your government has crossed many lines. Sadly, this is only one.

I\'m sorry but I just cant grant you the premise that waterboarding amounts to torture. This is not some courtroom civil rights bullshit these are high level terrorists picked up on the battlefield of a WAR and the coercive measures taken againts these pieces of shit has probably saved 10\'s of thousands of american lives. Im not willing to give these assholes picked up in far flung places access to the american court system.

But then, I have a rich and fulfilling real life.

Ahh yes the arrogant condescension comes through loud and clear there.

phartacus

Quote
Wikipedia

*Suspected* mastermind. There is no way in hell that this should be allowed for a suspect. He\'s fucking innocent until proven guilty. It\'s as simple as that.

You shouldn\'t torture people for court-admissible information anyway, it\'s not scientifically valid - people say anything under pressure. It\'s like testing whether a hat is orange by doing:
1. Pick up hat.
2. Paint hat orange.
3. Check if hat is orange.

Well I don\'t believe that stuff. If it was a conspiracy, I further doubt that Bush was involved. I think he\'s simply a puppet for his corporate buddies - nothing more, nothing less. Have you read/seen The Manchurian Candidate? Kinda the same thing, but they just pay him off instead of brainwashing.

Get a fucking clue and stop posting links to wikipedia. Also "innocent until proven guilty" and access to lawyers and all that BS doesnt really apply to people shooting guns at you on a battlefield in the middle of a fucking war.