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This story is not for the faint hearted ...

Started by sngwthme, September 04, 2006, 11:04:57 am

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sngwthme

This story is not for the faint hearted but is truely an important and serious issue.  Please join me with crossed fingers that the house will see the light and pass this bill!!


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-09-04-horse-slaughter_x.htm

gkg

i think it\'s something to do with filters at work or whatever but every time i use that link all i get is a chance to donate to the ASPCA... is there another link to the article?
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

sngwthme

That\'s weird. A donation to the ASPCA is not a bad thing either. How interesting that that would come up considering this story.
Sorry it\'s the only link, copied it from the Address line. Maybe you could copy and paste it in the line and it might work. Thanks for being interested and taking a look anyway.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-09-04-horse-slaughter_x.htm


buswolley

September 07, 2006, 10:24:51 pm #3 Last Edit: September 07, 2006, 11:44:05 pm by buswolley
The House vote was 263-146 to outlaw the killing of horses for human consumption.

sngwthme

WooHoo.... Yes good news indeed!!  
Now, on to the Senate!!

gkg

yeah - that one makes me really happy.  there\'s at least one restaurant in NYC that actually has it on their MENU!
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

Bonescan

Just out of interest are you guys vegetarians? If not then how come horses deserve not to be eaten but cows and sheep etc.. do?

I don\'t mean to sound rude because everyone is entitled to their opinioins on the matter, i just don\'t get what the difference is between eating a horse or eating a cow.

gkg

September 08, 2006, 11:39:36 pm #7 Last Edit: September 08, 2006, 11:39:56 pm by gkg
nope - happy little carnivore here, but i would say probably if you don\'t understand the difference then you\'ve never known horses, cows and sheep personally.

i\'ve known all three and many other creatures, and it comes down to a combination of the various creatures\' intelligence and what one can gather from interactin with them as what one might consider a naturally intended design & purpose of each.  just my point of view but it is akin to saying some creatures of the sea, such as the lobster, are really meant to eat and be eaten, and a dolphin is not.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

Bonescan

September 09, 2006, 12:39:28 am #8 Last Edit: September 09, 2006, 12:48:06 am by Bonescan
That\'s kind of an odd assumption to make. I live in a rural area of England, and my best friend as a kid lived on a farm so i have spent a lot of time around farm animals.

I don\'t understand the argument that intelligence dictates whether something should be eaten or not. If that were the case then i see no reason why horses would be off limits. For instance a pig is on at least the same level of intelligence as a horse (i would say greater), they can also be extremely affectionate towards humans and make excellent pets. How do you feel about eating Pigs?

I have never eaten horse myself by the way, not because i would\'nt but just that i have never been anywhere that serves it. I would it eat it though if it were offered to me.

dirtface

September 09, 2006, 03:37:31 am #9 Last Edit: September 09, 2006, 03:55:17 am by dirtface
On this subject I have to side with Bonescan. IMWO it is rather hard to make a legitimate case based on moral grounds when it comes to what is fair game and what should be off limits (barring the obvious of course... no human consumption for those not with me). I had a pet pig! I worked on a kill floor. Let me ask this; is a really laid back human less of a person in your eyes? Cows are very laid back animals (and tasty I might add). Hell, maybe a tomato is simply more laid back then a cow. I recall research studying the way calcium was maneuvered in the stems of tomatoes to counter the breezes they are subjected to. It is very surprising to see just how fast they react. Does this constitute intelligence? Ahhhh, a debate I would enjoy waging....Face it. Even if it dismays you, we are omnivores. We can get by without meat but most of us cannot derive pleasure from the course. Life is for us to enjoy now isn't it? Damn precarious balances we strike in the name of it ya see.

Now, that said I don\'t think I am really seeing gkg qualifying here next burger based on a lack of intelligence (that is unless it came from Mickey D\'s). I believe she is starting to speak OMG Intelligent Design? I don't know if I should be mortified, sickened or both. BOTH! Comon gkg, what tastes good to us is a matter of what holds the most nutrients and the least toxins. We build personifications (sad choice of word given the subject matter) around certain forms of life that are less nourishing in one form and possibly more so in another. When is the last time you heard people expound about the pleasure derived indulging in the beauty of observing the movement of lobsters? Can you jump out of the water like a dolphin? Don't undercut me. We are a shrewd animal. If we eat too many Dolphins there won't be any left! Save the whale up until you find a way to farm it.

I am going to get my asbestos suit now so go ahead and speak your piece.  

gkg

i think it\'s a far leap from what i said to intelligent design...  hope you don\'t hurt yourself making that jump!  seriously - it\'s not something we\'re all going to agree on or even understand much about how some of us come to our positions over a little chat in here.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

buswolley

The real sad part of this whole argument, no matter what side you sit on, is -- does the US Government really not have better things to do?  If you do a little reading on the subject you discover there are only three slaughter houses in the US.  Two in Texas, the owners must not have the right ears or this would have never seen the light of day.  Don't they have bigger fish to fry: ending a war, decreasing a deficit, and what ever happened to that 'no child left behind' thing?

AND, the bill doesn't really address the problem, which is not whether you agree with human consumption, but the humane treatment of these particular animals.  Horse can still be rendered for animal consumption.  Which, by the way, is very good for large predators captive in zoos.  The in-humane treatment actually gets worse, because now we will transport across our boarders to Canada.  It is my understanding that the transportation is a huge part of the problem.    

The moral issue really boils down to: are you for or against eating your pet?  It's not really an intelligence thing, because you're right pigs are highly evolved.  People in Asian countries eat cats.  Are we willing to slaughter them too?  Does a line in the sand need to be drawn or do we simply leave it up to the free market?

gkg

pigs are highly evolved?  i\'ll have to reasearch that because the pigs i\'ve known, although charming, haven\'t been all that bright.  the goats on the other hand, they have been damn smart.

you\'re probably right that it\'s not really intelligence for most, and maybe not really even for me although that\'s my rationalization - could be a pet thing but i have known pigs as pets and i would still eat one.  i have known horses who worked all their lives, they were not treated as pets, and i would still never eat one.

it could be cultural - i was taught to respect horses as partners in the work that needed doing, and to view pigs and cows as deserving of respectful and humane treatment while being bred and raised to provide food.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

buswolley

You're right maybe it is more cultural then anything else.  I have eaten a lot of weird stuff in my life.  Mostly out of pure curiosity.  A horse will never be on that list!  Or a cat for that matter.

And as for 'highly evolved' perhaps too strong a word choice, but they are very smart.

gkg

yeah, i have too - soup from chicken feet, bugs, chocolate covered bugs, and none of that was weird to me because of where i was and what was accepted... cats & dogs aren\'t on my edible list either.  i\'m not so much into the brains thing either - but i do love liver, especially pate.  i won\'t eat the kind where geese are forcibly fed though - once i learned about that practice it went on the inedibles list.  force fed veal, same thing.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved