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Voices of Courage

Started by D.O.D, April 30, 2005, 04:12:35 pm

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D.O.D

Very slowly the voices of courage are being heard in the land. To name just a few... Michael Moore, Howard Zinn, David Griffin. Are there  more?  DOD

spencer

May 01, 2005, 06:56:08 am #1 Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 06:57:48 am by spencer
It is true I don\'t know anything about the current political state of our country or anything, so therefore i don\'t really have a veritable opinion on this subject.

That said-I really dislike Michael Moore.  I\'m not republican, and I don\'t think my immeadeate family is either, I just don\'t think people should actually watch his films and take in information on that.  They\'re pretty chopped and edited heavily to the point of entertainment, not for information.

Another thing I think about when I visit typically liberal boards on the internet is that while everyone here hates Bush, there\'s still a majority in America that prefers them over Kerry or anything the Democratic party had to dish out.  

So... I don\'t know.  I\'m just gonna keep living life, and ignore the important things until nuclear war strikes and then i\'ll start complaining about how the world\'s gonna end.  Cuz, let\'s face it-short of a magical rock group that changes the world indefinately for the good a la Wyld Stallyns ("Bowling scores are way up, and mini-golf scores are WAY down"), there\'s no way to stop the madness that happens in this world except selective genocide, but then again, who are we to decide who dies?  

 :-[ :P


For the record, I\'m not trying to talk against you, I really really respect you from what i\'ve read earlier, i\'m just kinda ramblin\', cuz I\'m a kid, and I need to emote if i wanna turn out to be sane when I grow up.

stuffyrandL

Hey, Spencer,
In my Fire Investigation class, we were taught to get to an incident while it was still burning.  Walk around, look from all sides, gather information.  Look at that information objectively and form an opinion to the best of your ability.  If you want to learn more about the current situation(s) in our country (and the world, for that matter) that\'s a good way to begin.  It may take a bit of time for you to sort out the information you collect but it\'s worth it in the long run.  It sounds like a cliche but what is decided now in our country will affect you sooner or later.  And when it does, you can make an informed, intelligent decision based on the information you\'ve gathered. :)
Be happy while you're living for you're a long time dead- Scottish proverb

deconstruct

I admire and have a lot of respect for Seymour Hersh. (It makes me ill to see the Michael Jackson case receive more media coverage than the Abu Ghraib trial). I think he is journalistic integrity personified.
I\'m a big fan of Janeane Garofalo too. She\'s bright, articulate, wears her heart on her sleeve (literally), and funny as hell.
I appreciate the work of Amy Goodman but I can\'t honestly say I have the time to listen to her show. She\'s on Public Access television here as well, but at the strangest hours.

I don\'t think youth should be an excuse to be uninformed. If it is then I think the rest of this country\'s got some \'splaining to do. Like the previous poster said, we should all look at information objectively and come to an informed opinion. It doesn\'t necessarily mean you\'ll walk away as a liberal, conservative, or any other label people like to toss around. It just means you\'ll be informed and are better able to articulate and justify your opinion when you do find one.

gkg

a huge note of agreement on Sy Hersh!  he\'s marvelous.

i miss the days of editors and reporters who really dug into the facts and put them out there for all to read and consider - they were journalists first and foremost.  Hersh is one of a dying breed.  it\'s all sound bites and bullshit for PR & money with so much of the mainstream media.

i think Maureen Dowd also does a good job of trying to get things out there.

Spencer - you\'ve said before that you\'re too young to get interested in politics, you want to enjoy your youth - but you\'re not all that young any more and what is happening today determines what your life will be like tomorrow - now is the time to develop an informed frame of mind so that when the vote is handed to you at age 18 you have a basis of comparison and an understanding of the situation at hand.

don\'t dismiss Moore just because he\'s entertaining, he\'s entertaining to get people to look - but he\'s presenting facts.  if you doubt that - look up the context of each segment that you question - do some research.  simplistic dismissal of a messenger is how one gets into trouble.  i think, my young friend, it\'s time to step forward and address the fact that you\'re a young man in a troubled nation.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

Peace_On_Earth

December 26, 2005, 05:50:17 pm #5 Last Edit: December 26, 2005, 05:50:51 pm by Peace_On_Earth
More Voices of Courage can be found here from the Howard Zinn\'s Voices of the People\'s History of the United States:

URL: https://store.democracynow.org/?pid=10&show=2005-12-26 (can be purchased as CD: $15, Video $30 and DVD $25)

I was kucky enough to get tickets to this reading. All the performers can be included in those who are voices of courage: Anthony Arnove, Christina Kirk, Josh Brolin, Danny Glover, Vanessa Martinez, Kerry Washington, Floyd Red Crow, Viggo Mortensen, Sandra Oh, Leslie Silva and Marisa Tomei.

But even more so, I feel those who speak out in an independent voice apart from corporatism and lies are the strongest voices of courage. Like those who send letters to editors, those who post activism on their Web sites and still others who start campaigns of peace, that is where we will find the true voices of courage.

In a world where a government oppresses its people for speaking out to the point of wide spread depression , the true applause goes to those folks who stay the course.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety derserve neither liberty nor safety."  Benjamin Franklin

stuffyrandL

Thanks for the link, Peace on Earth!  

Yesterday, my sister-in-law and her boyfriend gave my husband Responses to Occupation.  He laughed and laughed when he opened it.  For we had given them the same book and to my husband\'s father as well. LOL!  And we gave Intelligence Failure to hubby\'s dad and sis as well.  They listened to it on the way to another family gathering today and his mother called to tell us it was incredibly moving and powerful.  So, included in the list should be Henry Mortensen, Buckethead, Mr. Travis probably helped with it, and any other performers listed.   Those two CDs will be passed around among my in-laws friends so how many are reached through it?  It\'s unknown, really!
Be happy while you're living for you're a long time dead- Scottish proverb

oldfolkie

December 27, 2005, 04:02:07 pm #7 Last Edit: December 27, 2005, 04:06:05 pm by oldfolkie
I think there\'s still a lot to be got from http://www.poetsagainstthewar.org/ where they\'ve been speaking their minds since before the current war began.

I had a hard time finding Amy Goodman too, until I realized that http://www.democracynow.org/index.pl uploads their current show and you can play it there. I watched the Zinn-Arnove program yesterday and was glad to have had the chance. It must have been a great event to attend.

Here in Canada we\'re in the throes of a federal election, but of course it doesn\'t have the global import of one in the USA. All we need to speak out against here is the usual corruption that power brings, and the insidious creep of the religious right into our political lives via the Conservative-Reform-Alliance Party (yep, known locally as "CRAP"). It\'s pretty hard to vote for the incumbent (corrupt) Liberals, though, and the New Democrats have almost as little credibility plus no hope of forming a government. Might have to vote Green this time, in protest -- it won\'t affect the result in my riding one way or another.  At least we\'re not at war with anybody, even if we\'re arguing a lot with our cousins south of the border... ::)

ETA: Spencer? You\'ve got part of it right, at least, and good for you for figuring it out so early! Living your life the best way you can is the best possible start. Looking around you and figuring out things you can do to help is another step. There is always hope, and there is always something we can do. Feeling powerless is the first step to letting those in power defeat you.  
:o oops, sorry for the rant  ;)
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity. ~  R.A. Heinlein

Peace_On_Earth

December 27, 2005, 05:28:08 pm #8 Last Edit: December 27, 2005, 05:30:13 pm by Peace_On_Earth
Thanks oldfolkie for the uplifting words. I was beginning to feel pretty powerless after watching Syriana (I started the Syriana board yesterday on this site). I am the one who said she has no hope.

We used to be able to yank scoundrels out of governernment. That was why kings used to be afraid of the masses. Why can\'t we raise even one lick of fear in our leaders loosing their positions today? They just thumb their noses at us in modern times.

It\'s not just Bush though, for me, it was Clinton and Rwanda where we lost 1 million lives and the Black Hawk Down issues too. I\'m certified by the United Nations in International Humanitariam Law and the Law of Armed Conflict - and my heart is a pacifist 100%. I think there is always a way to work something out diplomatically and not through force.

If you have not seen the movie Hotel Rwanda, I recommend that one too. I studied that massacre to the point of tears. And the movie is a highly accurate depiction of how the world let Rwanda down. There is another little known film called "Gaza Strip" that maybe you guys might relate to also. It too is an accurate depiction of why we have Arab blood (which I have in me) angry at us. Visit the site here to learn more: http://www.littleredbutton.com/gaza/

Sorry for the hand wringing, but I am still working on finding my hope. It\'s in me somewhere....   :-/
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety derserve neither liberty nor safety."  Benjamin Franklin

phartacus

QuoteI\'m certified by the United Nations in International Humanitariam Law and the Law of Armed Conflict - and my heart is a pacifist 100%. I think there is always a way to work something out diplomatically and not through force.

i watch a ton of c span and cable news networks and this really has me baffled. so since you are certified by the grand institution known as the united nations you might know better than me.....but i was wondering who al queda\'s main diplomat was and when was the last time he/she initiated some sort of dialog with the united states?

Peace_On_Earth

December 28, 2005, 03:47:15 am #10 Last Edit: December 28, 2005, 04:08:32 am by Peace_On_Earth
Hey phartacus,

Take a look at the conflict from the Arab world in a historical context back to the time of the crusdaes - there you might find when the Arab world initiated dialogue when the Western world invaded their lands. The Arabs told us then to get off their lands in our illegal occupation - this many years later we are still invading their space and calling Palestinian lands "disputed" territory instead of "occupied" much like we call the Iraq war diplomatic efforts to rid ourselves of phantom weapons of mass destruction rather just plain calling it the illegal occupation it is so the oil industry can fattern their pockets and rape America of its money by raising gas prices.

I was a Republican at the time of the first Bush election and felt a shift in the Republican Party when Cheney elected himself the VIP choice (Now I am a Democrat). But, my words are just my opinion, which in a democracy we are supposed to have varied views, something that is not really taking place in our government anymore. So, I\'m not saying you have to hang with my point of view.

Read on for more opinions:

Mr. Cheney\'s Imperial Presidency
December 23, 2005, © The New York Times
URL: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/23/opinion/23fri1.html

"Israel is the reason behind Iraq war"
12/26/2005 Al Jazeera
URL: http://www.aljazeeramagazine.com/cgi-bin/review/article_full_story.asp?service_ID=10238

"Palestinians Hit By Sonic Boom Air Raids"
Chris McGreal in Gaza
Thursday November 3, 2005 The Guardian
URL: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1607236,00.html

Telling it like it isn\'t
By Robert Fisk, ROBERT FISK
December 27, 2005, © Los Angeles Times
URL: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-fisk27dec27,0,6099761.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

And Mr. Bush\'s own words on his goals for America:
"make America less dependent on foreign sources of oil."

And in the end we have struck behind closed doors deals that are a cash cow for large corporate oil companies at the cost of thousands of American lives and tens of thousands of Iraqi lives. I think America is shouting at the Arab world rather than "striking a dialogue."
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety derserve neither liberty nor safety."  Benjamin Franklin

phartacus

QuoteThe Arabs told us then to get off their lands in our illegal occupation

so it was european crusaders that justified bin ladens gang murdering thousands of american CITIZENS in a cowardly attack?
seriously though i disdain war/violence as much as anyone here but to think that murderous dictators such as hussein and religious zealots like bin laden can be dealt with through diplomatic means in pure delusion.

Peace_On_Earth

not really. There are so many other means of persuasion/pressure other than blowing someone\'s head off. And I did not say Bin Laden was justified. In fact it was a horrible day caused by an extremist ideaology that caused serious injury to America\'s psyche. It\'s easy to scare the Hell out of Americans now - me included. I flew to Washingtond DC in January 2002 and was scared out of my mind! But I did it anyway.

However, I am saying this is not a new conflict between extremist Islam and extremist Christian Fundamentalism. And, I am saying there is no difference between the Pope at that time (I am Catholic, so I am not inferring any offense) telling the military to go attack the Arabs during the crusades and Bin Laden telling his militants to go attack the U.S. on 9-11 and America telling its troops to go attack Arab soil in Iraq and Afghanistan and America supporting Israel\'s ofenses against the Arabs - this is a long standing historical battle. And there is no nation on the side of justice. That\'s all I am saying. And I feel hopeless at times that we can\'t seem to end it. And I feel America\'s foreign policies toward the so called thrid world are the reason we have these issues.  :(
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety derserve neither liberty nor safety."  Benjamin Franklin

Aquabot

Quote

so it was european crusaders that justified bin ladens gang murdering thousands of american CITIZENS in a cowardly attack?
seriously though i disdain war/violence as much as anyone here but to think that murderous dictators such as hussein and religious zealots like bin laden can be dealt with through diplomatic means in pure delusion.

The US government could have had diplomatic dilog since the Bush family and the Ben Laden family were in contact for business. They could have had diplomatic dialog with Saddam Hussein since it\'s the US government that put him in place and supported him ( like they supported talibans in afghanistan) a while ago to fight against Iran.

There is no war (there has never been any war) waged to liberate people, it doesn\'t exist. War is always waged to dispossess other countries of their natural riches.

Peace_On_Earth

January 01, 2006, 07:54:57 pm #14 Last Edit: January 01, 2006, 07:55:57 pm by Peace_On_Earth
AQUABOT WROTE:
There is no war (there has never been any war) waged to liberate people, it doesn\'t exist. War is always waged to dispossess other countries of their natural riches.


Hallelujah Amen! I said Hallelujah AMEN to recognizing war sucks and is merely for selfish purposes!
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety derserve neither liberty nor safety."  Benjamin Franklin