August 12, 2020, 03:01:37 pm

New
Site design:

A lot of new content added.

Check the home page.


New!
Thanatopsis "Requiem" Available now.


Studio Videos

Live in studio performances

who served / who didn\'t

Started by gkg, November 15, 2005, 09:09:56 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

gkg

Please read all the way to the bottom...

Democrats:
* Richard Gephardt: Air  National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force  1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al  Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an  army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt.  j.g. Navy 1966-69; Meda l of Honor, Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army  1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver  Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff  Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army  1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam. Paraplegic from war  injuries. Served in Congress.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
*  Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
* Jack Reed:  Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz  Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven  campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs,  Bronze Stars, and Soldier\'s Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force  Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star  and Legion of Merit.
* Mike  Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride:  Candidate fo r Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam;  Bronze Star with Combat  V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete  Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell  Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during  WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments.  Entered draft  but received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the  Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and  Korea; six DFCs and AirMedal with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by  Raoul Wallenberg.

======================================================================

Republicans:
*  Dick Cheney: did not serve.  Several deferments, the last  by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom  Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill  Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick  Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John  Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb  Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby  Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." This is the man who attacked Max Cleland\'s patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did  not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith:  did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard  Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon! Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim  Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
*  Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57)  as flight instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year  National Guard; got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan:  Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
* Phil  Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Vietnam POW, Silver Star, Bronze  Star, Legion of  Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying  Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh:  did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not  serve. "Knee problem, " although he continued in NFL for 8 years as  quarterback.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National  Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did  not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler:  did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
*  Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.

Pundits  & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush  Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a \'pilonidal cyst.\')
* Bill O\'Reilly:  did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will:  did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot:  did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan:  did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol:  did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin  Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only  shoots at things that don\'t shoot back.)
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

phartacus

please tell me how this is relevant to ANYTHING?

dirtface

Hello phartacus,

I will gladly field this one. Does the name John Locke ring any bells for you?

Cheers.

phartacus

so you dont see its relevance either?

dirtface

Quoteso you dont see its relevance either?

Hello phartucus,

Well, seeing as you were unable to make the connection might I suggest you visit your local public (government funded) library.

Cheers.

p.s.
What do you suppose is the basis of rational decision?

phartacus

Quote

Hello phartucus,

Well, seeing as you were unable to make the connection might I suggest you visit your local public (government funded) library.

Cheers.

the internet has rendered the library useless

its too bad you cant answer the question without going through some little dance about a philosophical ideal.

i am well aware of the intentions behind the original posters reason for posting it.
p.s.
What do you suppose is the basis of rational decision?

phartacus

hmmn my last post got sandwiched between the main body and the post script and since im not a registered user i cannot use the edit feature so here it is in its sterile form....




the internet has rendered the library useless
 
its too bad you cant answer the question without going through some little dance about a philosophical ideal.
 
i am well aware of the intentions behind the original posters reason for posting it.

D.O.D

  I think that GKG \'s scorecard ....  \' who served etc.  has some relevency to it. Anyone  who has never had  their hair parted with machine gun bullets or  never experienced  an artillery  shell screaming in and exploding, nearly jerking their hearts out, should give painstaking  thought  to sending young men into battle. Historically,  our leaders, faced with hard choices in a political, worldly crisis, quickly skipped over  negotiations, deliberation, and bargaining, and chose war as the only solution . The only flaw in GKG \'s  list is that even those who served lacked  the political courage to go against  war.  

phartacus

Quote I think that GKG \'s scorecard ....  \' who served etc.  has some relevency to it. Anyone  who has never had  their hair parted with machine gun bullets or  never experienced  an artillery  shell screaming in and exploding, nearly jerking their hearts out, should give painstaking  thought  to sending young men into battle. Historically,  our leaders, faced with hard choices in a political, worldly crisis, quickly skipped over  negotiations, deliberation, and bargaining, and chose war as the only solution . The only flaw in GKG \'s  list is that even those who served lacked  the political courage to go against  war.  

    Ok sure it MIGHT be relevant if it were an accurate portrayal of who (congress) has sent our young men and women into battle. But if you really look at the the list with an open mind you will notice that the only republican who served that is listed is John McCain while the democrat side is chocked full of those that served their country. Now to the casual observer it would seem like in the history of the grand old party one republican has served. Which brings me to another point... the list is flawed cause it has names of politicians who are no longer in congress and in some cases are deceased.
    Here is how the the 108th congress military service tallies up, the same body that gave the president the authority to remove Saddam with force
  
Senate 18 repubs and 16 dems http://veterans.house.gov/vetlink/seanatestats.htm

House  71 repubs and 49 dems
http://veterans.house.gov/vetlink/memberstats.htm

    Make no mistake the original poster has nothing but disdain for the military.  

            

dirtface

Quote
the internet has rendered the library useless.

Nah. Not even close.

dirtface

Quoteits too bad you cant answer the question without going through some little dance about a philosophical ideal.

What I was pointing to was not "some little dance about a philosophical ideal". My point was very simple and I guess I am suprised you couldn\'t pick it out without help.

Knowledge comes from experience. Decisions are based on knowledge. Depth of knowledge leads to well informed decisions. Many of the Republicans that GKG points out are key decision makers in the current administration. Their input was pivotal in the drive up to the current war. Their lack of depth of understanding of where they were actually going has lead us up to where we are now.

I suspect you are looking for a fight. If this is the case I am sorry to disappoint you. GKG\'s point is relevant regardless if you hear it or not. There is nothing to argue about.

dirtface

Quote Ok sure it MIGHT be relevant if it were an accurate portrayal of who (congress) has sent our young men and women into battle.

First I would like to thank you for the links. One small question or call it a caveat if you are willing to accept it.
Are we currently \'At War\' or are we only in combat?

Article 1, Sec. 8(11) US Constitution

gkg

D.O.D -
QuoteThe only flaw in GKG \'s  list is that even those who served lacked the political courage to go against  war.

that\'s true, and i do wonder why that is... my suspicion is that it was easier to get swept up in the "moment" when that decision was being made than to stand up and go against the flow.  that bothers me a great deal.
phartacus -
Quote
Make no mistake the original poster has nothing but disdain for the military.
you know nothing about me or my feelings about the military.  as it happens, oh presumptuous one, i was born into the Army and have a great respect for the people who serve.  i do not have a great respect for people who know nothing of the realities of war sending people out into battle based on half-truths and lies.

what, in your view, makes the list irrelevant?  these people all took part in the national debate and decision making process to send our young men and women into harm\'s way.  how is that no relevant?

in posting the list as i did i was simply to make people aware of the relevant experience of the people who are most insistant on this war and to hear what people might think about it - it took more than 2 weeks to garner a remark at all, and then it appears that all you have done, phartacus, is render a judgement against me as the poster, rather than have anything to share about the information itself.  i deliberately didn\'t comment upon it myself, wanting not to muddy the water with my own opinion in the thread.

dirtface - thank you for your thought provoking question... i know the question wasn\'t directed at me, but i do believe we are at war.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

dirtface

dirtface - thank you for your thought provoking question... i know the question wasn\'t directed at me, but i do believe we are at war.[/quote]

Interesting. I am thinking that technically we are not at war. This may be considered splitting hairs but I think it is pertinent as I feel those who make important decisions bear the responsibility of the consequences.

The way I see it is that upon request Congress voted to give the President the latitude to use proper judgment re the potential issues he was espousing at the time. He did not merely fail to do this but had no intention whatsoever having decided well before hand.

I appreciate your post and I apologize if I am overrunning your thread.

Aquabot

Quotethose who make important decisions bear the responsibility of the consequences.  
but are never judged.