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War after war, whether is new one?

Started by Oleg281, July 07, 2005, 05:08:26 pm

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Oleg281

War after war, whether is new one?
HISTORY REPEATS

1812 + 65 = 1877 Falling Osmanli colonialism
1877 + 64 = 1941 Falling of Fascist colonialism
1941 + 64 = 2005 Struggle against totalitarian modes,
 for democratization.

You can look on //www.genevo.org/p2i.htm
Table 16.

1938 the Munich agreement brought " the world to the Europe ".
In 64 years army of the USA and coalitions will
conduct antiterrorist operation, which has brought  protection against terrorism and peace for all.
What else is necessary for USA and Europe to do to create final peace?

gkg

well, let\'s see, for starters - acknowledge that there is more to the world than just US and Europe and their will is not going to be imposed on others without a fight.

you cannot bully people into submission any longer - within our own country we have been steadily quashing rights to bully the dissent into silence.

mankind needs to learn to work together, rather than trying to impose their way on each other.   history will continue to repeat itself until the lesson is learned - extreme fundamentalism and forceful domination are not acceptable.  
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

Oleg281

QuoteWar after war, whether is new one?
HISTORY REPEATS

1812 + 65 = 1877 Falling Osmanli colonialism
1877 + 64 = 1941 Falling of Fascist colonialism
1941 + 64 = 2005 Struggle against totalitarian modes,
for democratization.

You can look on //www.genevo.org/p2i.htm
Table 16.

1938 the Munich agreement brought " the world to the Europe ".
In 64 years army of the USA and coalitions will
conduct antiterrorist operation, which has brought  protection against terrorism and peace for all.
What else is necessary for USA and Europe to do to create final peace?

Oleg281

England runs democratic colonization policy,
do you hear this for the first time?

Attack to London by Iraqi insurgents is possibly
connected with their strategy of anticolonial war.
Their calculation is connected with discredit of policy of
London in Iraq and disengagement of English armies.
For US government leaving of England from Iraq
would be disintegration of a coalition and individual
opposition to the world community.

Oleg281

64 years ago governments of the Europe convinced people
that barbarians live in Russia ;D, now Asia.
What in your opinion destruction of Iraq is justified by?

War in Iraq goes against presence of colonial armies.
If London refuse democratic colonization of Iraq
and accelerate disengage of armies, political positions of armed
democratls  which are supported by London and Ankara will
weaken in Russia.

gkg

do you read or just respond?  nothing i said implied that there is anything remotely justifiable in the war in Iraq - if you\'ve read the rest of this section of the board you\'d know that.  the fact is, that does not justify the attack.

attacking Iraq, though wrong, does not offer license for terrorist attacks.  nothing does.  it is very wrong of us to be in Iraq.  the only remotely justified presence is in Afghanistan, if that, because they were supposedly going after the master mind of the 9/11 attack on NYC - Osama binLaden.  fact is, they\'ve lost the thread on that one and Bush had an agenda to go into Iraq to start with, they started orchestrating a reason to go there from the moment he took office.

that is wrong and we should never have done it.  but, we did, and London among others, including Denmark and Italy, etc. supported us.  they were seduced by the lies that our government put out and now they\'re stuck trying to find a way to salvage what is left of Iraq and get out.

that being the case, while i agree with the Iraqis\' right to protest and fight against our presence there, i do believe that a small but deadly fringe element is using that as an excuse to try to wreak havoc in the supposed mission of their perversion of Islam.

in this particular case it is not England and Colonialism, Oleg281, it\'s the US and Imperialism.  most truly put, it\'s the result  of a Corporate take over of US government.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

Oleg281

About what international sympathy London asks?
London tries to present attack of insurgents
as world tragedy. Fifty person  was lost, whereas
democrats divided people in Iraq and tens person daily perish. The world tragedy is played by democratic colonialists in Asia.

1938-1945, London kindled war against new Russian type of the device of the state, as a result 60 mln.people was lost.

2002-???, London has kindled war against developing Asian type of the device of the state.

How many should be lost, your opinion?

gkg

July 12, 2005, 04:00:52 pm #7 Last Edit: July 12, 2005, 11:39:22 pm by gkg
Quote1938-1945, London kindled war against new Russian type of the device of the state, as a result 60 mln. people was lost.

2002-, London has kindled war against developing Asian type of the device of the state.  

please offer specific statements and not pseudoclever inuendo.  this incident is not retribution for or response to WWII, though it may be a long term residual effect, yes.  but in that regard every war, as you imply, is in some way developed by exploitation of a residual effect.  that doesn\'t make it either right or tolerable.

in addition, random acts of terror are not an "acceptable" form of warfare - they are murder for the pure intention of terror and mayhem.  they do nothing to further their own cause, and in fact they do the opposite.

London isn\'t calling for international sympathy - it is rightly getting it from the international community, who are outraged by this insanity.  it isn\'t the number of people, it is the random killing of people going about their own business.

while i know it is popular to call these people insurgents, they are not really insurgents in my personal opinion.  there are, in my belief, only a very few insurgents in Iraq, but they are fueled and abetted by a large group of terrorists fanning the flames of the insurgency for their own end.  these are merely terrorists with a proclaimed totalitarian agenda.  it is these terrorists who attacked London, not an insurgency.  they are not fighting within one country for their own liberation or rule, but rather attacking worldwide seeking a wide ranging level of chaos and regression under their totalitarian regime.  do not take this to mean i condone the war in Iraq, i most heartily do not.  the US had no business doing what it did and as a US citizen i am appalled and ashamed.

it\'s a new world my friend, and you need to take what your history has taught you, put it in your back pocket, and examine the changes within society around the globe before applying platitudes.  it is a serious situation and perhaps you\'re too young(?) or too self-involved(?) but whatever the case - it\'s not really as simple as you\'d like to imply.

again, let me state you are misusing the word colonization - it is not colonization that is taking place, it is imperialism.  please review the words and learn their meanings if you\'re going to apply them.  it does make a difference in taking you seriously.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

Oleg281

To stabilize a situation in Iraq and region it is possible having revived
the Iraq national state. An example in development of the state -
achievements of Iran and other Asian countries.
I offer some of measures below:

1. An immediate deducing of armies of the USA and coalitions.
2. Creation of uniform national army.
3. Deportation of the democratic government.
4. Giving authority to leaders of Iraq.
5. The organization of elections of authorities.
6. Payment in current 5 years for destruction of the state by the countries-invaders.
7. S.Husejn\'s rehabilitation and clearing militarian captives.
8. Nationalization of natural riches for the term of not less than 3 years.
9. Amnesty to participants of the armed pro-American formations.

The USA and coalition can do nothing about it and then
after a while new war begin.
---------------------------------------
HISTORY REPEATS

www.genevo.org/p2i.htm

gkg

whether you like the war or not, an election did take place in Iraq and the Iraq government is trying to stabalize.  i realise as well as anyone that the US and others currently are too deeply involved with that government and that removal of US and other troops does need to take place, as soon as possible.

the answer of when is "as soon as possible" is up to several factors but so long as the so-called insurgents continue to blow innocent Iraqis up the occupying countries have their excuse for staying.  for some reason that simple fact seems to evade the people doing the bombings.

Sadam is not going to be rehabitated.  democracy is not likely to be shoved back out - the Iraqi people have exercised their right to it and it tends to be a genie that is hard to put back in a bottle.  deportation of the democratic government isn\'t a winning solution - unless you\'re advocating a regression to an extremist Islamic Fundamentalist totalitarian regime, which is not what the majority of the Iraq population want.  that might be able to happen eventually, by force, but it would be a fools paradise because there would be constant insurgency and interference from the rest of the world.  any sort of extremist fundamentalist totalitarian government is doomed to eventual failure because people do not like living that way.  it is not a natural or appropriate way for any creature to live.

if you\'re really in support of the concepts you seem to advocate, what are you doing here?  this site and the musicians available on it are far from being in support of fundamentalist totalitarianism.  their music is very far from something that would be viewed positively by such a regime.  you can\'t eat your cake and have it too.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

Oleg281

 :oHatred is connected with democratic colonization,
this is a cheap moral substantiation which
colonizers are covered by. 8)


Despite attack in London the government of England refuses
to tell the truth about Iraq and garbles the facts.
Without democracy the English government became profascist
and conducts a society to demoralization. Truth is hided from the people,
it is done to keep colonial financial streams.

Why should other people suffer from the colonial government of England?  >:(

gkg

democracy is not colonization, unless you foster it as such.

you are still confusing colonialism and imperialism, by the way.

corporate greed not exclusive to colonialism.  democracy simply makes it easier for anyone who so chooses to pursue their greed, or their personal aim whatever it may be.  it may not be perfection but having lived in a military dictatorship i can tell you i will not take militant fundamentalism as righteousness - it\'s the same as militarism.  it\'s a bully telling the world what to do.  at the moment we have one pretending to run a democracy - but when properly managed with people actually making the effort to vote and be active, the concept of democracy in action is a beautiful thing.

england is not the only liar.  nothing justifies what was done 7/7 or 9/11 - nothing.

so far, you\'re singing the same lyrics over and over so i\'m going to say thanks for the chat and wish you PEACE.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

Oleg281

You think how the Europe before 1938 - communism bad,
fascism - good. The campaign on the East - will rescue the Western society.

In Asia there is their own society. Terrorists are situated where invaders are. If to invade one more country terrorism will grow.

gkg

July 14, 2005, 04:03:30 pm #13 Last Edit: July 14, 2005, 04:49:36 pm by gkg
you\'re assuming again - poor idea.  i actually believe that some forms of communism, such as Marxism, if done truly might work.  it wasn\'t that it was communism, it was that it was corrupt and totalitarian.

Asia has serious problems - take a serious look at how people within their societies are dealt with if they speak out against some facet of their government.

as a physicist i would think you\'d see that there are complexities that take time to unravel - that absolutes are a rare commodity - and that in humans it just doesn\'t exist  humans are by their very nature unstable and unpredictable.

invasions are wrong - i agree.  however, terrorism is predicated on something far more sinister than retaliation for attack and if you\'re too naive to see that then i worry for you.  9/11 was not a retaliation for an attack.  it was the brainchild of someone who felt slighted by his own country\'s shift toward more western ways.  he faught alongside the US to remove Russia from Afghanistan, then wanted the US out of Saudi Arabia.  i\'m not saying he was wrong to want his government to live up to what they had told their citizens, but anger with them over that is no justification for the campaign of violence and terror he has spawned.

anyway, as i said, i\'m not really interested in taking this too much further because you\'re bent on seeing things in a naive and simplistic manner when life is a hell of a lot more complex than that.

if you could wave a magic wand and have the US and everyone else out of Iraq (and i believe they should get out) the terror would not stop - because the terrorists want control of the place for themselves as a base of operations for continued agression against other Muslim majority countries to try to rein them in and force them to a ridiculous and oppressive Islamic law that is nothing like what Mohammed intended at all.

PEACE to you.
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved

gkg

i thought i\'d offer you a little insight into my perspective on the *-cough-* president of the US and the war in Iraq.



the "prayer" is a little hard to read in the image, so let me help you out:

"Our Father,
who stole the White House,
Dubya be thy name;
thy cronies come,
thy will be done, on Earth as she cries in vain.
Give us this day,
our daily bombs,
and direct our trespasses, as we preempt those,
who may not be like us,
and lead us not into redemption,
but deliver us some oil.
In the name of the Power,
the Arms,
and the Corporation,
now and forever
ALL MINE."
Peace.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved