Travis Dickerson Recording Studio Forum

Hey Travis,

I notice that Axiology remains "temporarily" out of stock.  I seem to remember you had posted that a repress was coming, but maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.  What is the latest - out of stock forever, or a repress coming maybe someday?  I know CDs are a dying breed, but I'm old enough to still prefer them over downloads! Thanks.

I would love to repress Axiology. However, there is just no demand for it. No one is buying CDs anymore. I wanted to do it for the 10th year anniversary
but it really makes no economic sense.  So it's not looking good. Thanatopsis first CD is about to go out of print as well.  I have been toying with doing a short run of Axiology on vinyl but the retail price would be around $25. Not sure of the interest there either. It's looking like we have passed the CD singularity and will now be ( in best Steven Hawking voice) stretched into spaghetti.

I will buy two of these!

Count me in for 2 at least!

Count me in for purchasing Axiology on vinyl.

Quote from: Travis on January 10, 2015, 11:27:50 pm
I would love to repress Axiology. However, there is just no demand for it. No one is buying CDs anymore. I wanted to do it for the 10th year anniversary
but it really makes no economic sense.  So it's not looking good. Thanatopsis first CD is about to go out of print as well.  I have been toying with doing a short run of Axiology on vinyl but the retail price would be around $25. Not sure of the interest there either. It's looking like we have passed the CD singularity and will now be ( in best Steven Hawking voice) stretched into spaghetti.

travis throw up a pre-order! ill buy 2  :D :D

edit: oh and MAKE SOME MORE SHIRTS!!

I would also buy one. :)

I'll buy the vinyl or CD repress!

Axiology? My favorite Thanatopsis album...ON VINYL?! Count me in. I will definitely buy a copy.

I've added a poll just to get some idea of demand before I commit to anything.
I don't want to pre-sell anything because the last time I did we came way short and I'm still out of pocket on the repress I did anyway. Also, I don't want to collect money and have to refund 30 or 40 transactions. I would need  75 to 100 people say they would commit, then I would need 75 to actually pre-buy a repress. I really don't think there is anywhere close to that demand but for the sake of those that are encouraging me and would like to see something happen, I'll at least explore the idea.

If there is an interest in vinyl, It would probably be a pressing of 200 only as a commemoration of Axiology's 10th anniversary. I would probably remix it to tape and remaster for vinyl and do a 180 gram pressing. I might sign and number the editions sold to the pre-sale buyer, something like that.

The poll above has an option to just repress the CD, that might be the most practical option for most people who want to actually listen to the record, but I just don't know. I think most people who are interested in Thanatopsis have the CD, but i may be surprised, let's see.

Definitely interested in buying any Bucket on vinyl.  Hope this gets legs

vinyl is much needed! hopefully this can happen, and hopefully things like Population Override on vinyl will follow  8) :D

To be honest even though I'm a HUGE Thanatopsis fan , I have no physical copy of any of your albums ;( , I can't seem to find all 3 Thanatopsis albums on stock (as well as that neat poster).
With that said , an album such as Axiology (my favorite Thanatopsis album and one of my favorite albums of all time) , deserves a vinyl version.

So , I vote ''YES!'' press it on vinyl Mr. Dickerson!

If this gets repressed as a CD, I would definitely buy one (although I have the original CD). I'm not too much into Vinyl though, but maybe I'd grab one just for its optical attractions ;)

Ill take 2 vinyls. I need to listen to non sequitor all the time :)

Few people over at .TK said they would buy one. I'm still in for two. Poll might no reflect how many will be wanted. Thanks for this Travis.

i can see there being a bigger demand for some of Bucks solo albums on vinyl, but heres hoping for anything. I only really listen to vinyl now, I don't even have a working CD player!

Travis,

Long time between posts for me, but this prospect has me excited beyond words.

Axiology is my favorite Buckethead involved album ever, and a top 5 album of all time easily for me.

I would certainly buy at least 1 vinyl copy.

I also had a friend ask me today about Axiology on CD.  I told him to do whatever he had to do to get a copy.  Any chance to get this on vinyl would be amazing.  Just give me a target to throw money at!!

Thanks again for all of the great work over the years!

just registered to vote and say I will DEFINITELY be buying a vinyl if pressed!

I'll take Axiology on vinyl for $25!

Actually since it'll be super limited, you can put me down for two copies for sure. 

Also Travis, posting this on your facebook page might get some more views that we need on this.

Travis.

PLEEEEASE spring for the vinyl! $25 is perfect.

I hope we can make this sell so well that you'll give the rest of Thanatopsis / Dragons of Eden / Population Override the same treatment.

Geez, I'd gladly pay $40+ for Population Override. No hesitation.

Quote from: Lefty on January 14, 2015, 09:50:29 pm
Also Travis, posting this on your facebook page might get some more views that we need on this.

Yes, word needs to get out via other official channels too.

Quote from: PawnBot on January 14, 2015, 07:16:29 pm
Few people over at .TK said they would buy one. I'm still in for two. Poll might no reflect how many will be wanted. Thanks for this Travis.

I agree. Not everyone will sign up to take part in the poll, but Buckethead-related vinyl releases sell like wildfire, and if Travis is only doing a small press (sub-500) with all the bells and whistles (signed and numbered, etc.)  it'll sell out fast I'd imagine.

Quote from: topher on January 14, 2015, 10:52:30 pm
Travis.

PLEEEEASE spring for the vinyl! $25 is perfect.

I hope we can make this sell so well that you'll give the rest of Thanatopsis / Dragons of Eden / Population Override the same treatment.

Geez, I'd gladly pay $40+ for Population Override. No hesitation.

$25 really is a good price this for this... and YES let this be a litmus test for the other records. All Buckethead will sell.

I'd definitely buy one on vinyl

Came here from the vinylcollective forum and I'll say the same thing I said there...

"This is crazy. This is definitely one of my all time fav buckethead releases. The songs The New Year and Cult of One are two of my all time favorite, go-to chill songs. Love those songs and this album. Can't believe out of all the releases this one was considered. I'll definitely back this. Now only if we could get Electric Tears/Sea too, population override and dragon of eden."

if this happens "I would probably remix it to tape and remaster for vinyl and do a 180 gram pressing." i'm sold! i'll definitely pick up a copy.

lots of support on facebook, reddit and vinyl collective!

YESYESYESYESYESYESYES

If it gets pressed on vinyl, I will definitely pre-order this! :D

Not bad support for the first 24 hours the poll was open. 25% of the ~100 "YES"'s needed!

I would buy a vinyl pressing, depending on how much shipping to europe costs. I would love some vinyl pressings of other buckethead albums.

Fugitive Formally Known As P4B say he is Down with buying one

I'd buy both a vinyl and CD copy, Axiology's one of my favorite instrumental albums  :)

Regardless of the debate if CDs are still viable in today's digital download world, vinyl is very much still alive for us collectors and music eclectics. It's like a fine wine and a very special way to recognize the anniversary of any classic album. Axiology deserves that treatment. It is definitely among my favorite albums. I would buy two. One for myself and another as a gift to the person who introduced me to Thanatopsis, and Buckethead for that matter, so many years ago. :)

I just registered to vote and say I'd absolutely buy a vinyl press. I'd buy 2!

I would gladly purchase a vinyl for my wall.

I would purchase 3 copies of vinyl, 2 for me and 1 for my friend, voted!

I just signed in to this forum to say this: I would buy 2 of em! (even though I don't have a turn table yet)

lookin good so far, remember most of these votes are for people who want 2  :D

Just came from TK to sign up and vote.  2 copies for me and 2 more of any other Big B albums your willing to do.  Colma, Electric Tears, Electric Sea, Population Override, It's Alive, Shadows Between The Sky, etc.  2 OF EACH in vinyl!!!  I'm on a tight budget being permanently disabled but I would gladly lay down some greenbacks to get Big B vinyl and support TD and Big B's music.

on vinyl , on vinyl , please...

By appreciating (for a long time) this decennial artistic contribution, including any axiological (όντας αξιολογικόν παράγωγον) textures and connotations that emanate from its exceptional musical quality, I can only express my support to any recording medium, either vinyl or CD.


Thank you very much for all the axiological peregrinations Travis.

doing my best to keep the VC topic bumped.

please spread the word on other forums and social media!

thx all!

If its done up on vinyl I would buy 3

Count me in.  It would give me an excellent excuse to dust off the turntable.  8)

I'll take 1 vinyl when it happens  ;D

Totally in. Would by one...possibly two, depending on the shipping costs to Germany

I would definitely buy 2 on Vinyl, hopefully shipping to the UK would not be too expensive. I would also purchase a CD but would only let me vote once (voted vinyl).

Like many others have said, most people who have voted would be purchasing 2+ copies, so I think a run of 200 would be perfect! Signed/numbered as well...Sounds awesome!

Thanks Travis for even looking into the viability of doing this, really hope it goes ahead.

43 votes so far...Does Travis have anything to say as of right now?

A 180 gram , gatefold and fair international shipping. It would be a perfect choice for a record.

I'm keeping an eye on this. The numbers are about what I thought they would be. I know many have said they were in for multiples and I've had many private messages about even more. I have taken all that into account by the number I was shooting for. I really need to see about 100 people including those who say they would buy more than one before I'm willing to consider a pre-buy. I know from past experience how voting actually translates to buying.

I appreciate the enthusiasm of those posting here. I really have a lot of affection for these records and I really enjoy seeing there is still a lot of regard for them by those that are driving this.

I still have a healthy skepticism about such a small fan bases willingness to buy an object of even smaller support, that is vinyl. I have seen that its mostly as a collectors item in that a lot of people don't even have turntables or express an interest in framing them and putting them on a wall. It seems a poster would be a better bet than vinyl but I understand, it's a collector thing.

I have gotten a lot of mail with ideas for how to do this and how successful it will be, but I don't think they appreciate how small the fan base that actually buys things is. We are talking a few hundred people and now reduce that to those interested in Thanatopsis and reduce that to those interested in vinyl and you get the idea. Don't get me wrong. I would love to see this but I also don't need to spend money to store a bunch of vinyl in my storage room with a lot of other boxes of CDs gathering dust.

I have been looking into this in terms of the actual nuts and bolts of whats involved. There are some problems and we might as well go over those so I can see if anyone has a preference or at least to bring to light some of the hurdles yet to be overcome.

I went over the masters for Axiology. For some reason I was thinking it was a bit more that 40 minutes long. It's more like 54. This is a problem for vinyl. The ideal length for vinyl is about 18 minutes per side. As the length increases the depth of the grooves have to become less deep and bass is limited. At some point the record won't even track or will sound bad. Even if the whole CD could be put on one disc it would be far from the audiophile experience you would hope for by going vinyl. It may be done and I'm looking into it, but who would give up a good sounding record for the affordability of a single poor sounding disc. Maybe you would if your just going to hang to on your wall.  The other option would be to go for a double album and include some material not on the original and might as well go all out top of the line everything, 180 gram, gatefold jacket and art, signed numbered, limited total collectors item. Sounds great? $50 per disc 100 people pre-buy minimum to make it happen.  So you see, it's always something.

This is a problem for a lot of CDs going to vinyl. After vinyl, records became much longer and most of the Thanatopsis as well as Chicken Noodles and Dragons of Eden fall into this category. I know ION records was planning a Population Override vinyl and ran into these same issues. So they were contemplating a double album but that may have been too much trouble so I'm not sure what became of it. It's been over a year since I heard anything.

If you have an opinion, leave it here, I'm still listening.

Hi Travis. Thank you for your reply/update. They are always refreshingly honest and open as well as being informative. I love your willingness to pursue all avenues and to involve us, the fans, in the process.

I know here in the UK vinyl sold over 1M last year, an 18 year high for the medium! I appreciate most of these will not be for the more criminally under-rated artists like thanatopsis, but there is certainly a resurgence in vinyl sales and in the way some are yearning for something more tangible in the digital age we find ourselves in (myself included).

I know you have first hand experience in re-presses and the votes into purchases dilemma. I have been a keen fan of this site for some years now so I don't wish to give you advice on things you are much more knowledgeable on. I would hope however, that there would be more interest in a vinyl release than the poll suggests, it is perhaps a case of everyone here spreading the word.

I think at times (and I have probably been guilty of this), music fans of underground artists (for want of a better phrase) can be very protective of the music they love. This can sometimes lead to not wanting to share information on the latest limited edition run with anyone for fear of not having something rare and exclusive. I would rather shout from the rooftops about this however so I can own a copy myself, rather than no-one having it. I know this seems an obvious suggestion, but sometimes the best solutions are left unsaid and no-one implements them assuming others will.

I had genuinely not thought about the implications of the record length onto vinyl and personally would rather pay more for a quality product. In terms of pricing, $50 in Pounds Sterling seems more than fair to me and is equal to more commercial, more homogeneous releases being released, so I would be more than happy to pay this for a limited edition copy of an album that is deserving of it.

For the record (no pun intended), I would still purchase two even if just so I can own one (though I suspect one very fortunate friend of mine would receive one as a gift).

I apologize to all for the liberties I have taken with the length of this post, but let's all try and spread the word on Twitter, Facebook, other forums etc and make Travis's job that bit easier.

P.S. I'm sure I'm not the only one who weeped slightly at the thought of being so close to a Population Override LP

No need to apologize, I appreciate your thoughtful reply.  The more feedback i get the better to allow me to judge the  real interest in this. 

Travis,
Thank you for posting. Everyone should read your post. It's fascinating to learn the ins and outs and pros and cons you must consider to get something such as this released. But if you do decide to go through with the project, I say go all out. Press 2-LP in 180 gram and perhaps add some bonus material from that recording cycle to fill up the 18 minutes for each side. Include artwork. Of course, dat artwork! Yes, this is a collector's thing. I have no problem with that. I will play it, of course. But I'm still going to treasure it as a collector's item. It's Buckethead and Axiology for crying out loud! Clearly, you need to be assured that people will buy the product. So perhaps you should do a kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/) to fund this? Clearly, the project has to pay for itself and I'm sure you'd like to make a profit. I don't expect you to share the cost. But if you're shooting for $50 per purchase to support a 2-disc vinyl release, then perhaps you should consider securing funds ahead of time.

QuoteI know ION records was planning a Population Override vinyl and ran into these same issues. So they were contemplating a double album but that may have been too much trouble so I'm not sure what became of it. It's been over a year since I heard anything.

This may have got a release on vinyl after all. I did find a listing for a 2-LP edition with 6 bonus tracks on Amazon from dolphywas1/Ion Records. It would appear they did add material for a 2-disc special edition:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00QMJ2Y5M/ref=tmm_vnl_new_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=new&sr=&qid=

Buckethead has only appeared on a very small number of vinyl releases and those have mostly been with Gn'R and Praxis. But it is of my opinion that his solo works and projects with you and Brain would sell better these days on collector's style vinyl than previously. I think his fan base is growing now more than ever due to the response of his Pikes series and all the talk on music forums. I just don't think you would have too much trouble selling nice deluxe 2-LP sets of your releases with him. I know I'll do my best to spread the good word onto forums where I know people have a heavy interest in his work. But, again, if you're worried about financing, then maybe doing a kickstarter campaign is the way to go. If it is successful (and I really want it to be such), I would hope you could give more of these albums the vinyl treatment.

Here is the link to kickstarter:

https://www.kickstarter.com/

That is just one option, of course. Perhaps others here will weigh in. Don't feel pressured into something if ultimately you don't feel this is reali$tic.

WOW WHY HAS NO ONE EVER SHOWN ME THAT LISTING!!! Thats IONs official amazon page right? just ordered a copy

btw travis:

maybe instead of starting with a double 180 gram lp, why not start with a shorter release on a nice 180gram single LP?

What would that be?

If this does happen, I will definitely buy two vinyl editions, count me in.

I hope there is a vinyl copy of Population Override on Friday, because that's when I get paid...I would really LOVE to pick up a copy.

Quote from: ultra plinian on January 27, 2015, 01:35:38 am

This may have got a release on vinyl after all. I did find a listing for a 2-LP edition with 6 bonus tracks on Amazon from dolphywas1/Ion Records. It would appear they did add material for a 2-disc special edition:

Thanks for the info. Norman asked me last year if I had any more material from the PO sessions he could use on the vinyl. I didn't so looks like he padded it with some Cobra Strike and other ION records. That's kind of too bad because I don't consider those related at all. But I have no stake in the PO record having given up the recording as a favor ( long story  for another day). I hadn't heard anything about the final outcome, he doesn't maintain an ION website as far as I know.  So it's interesting to see it's appearance on Amazon.

I saw the PO vinyl the other day and just wrote it off as a bootleg pressed from cd but now i'm liking the odds of it being legit so i ordered one. 

What box was saying was to take off a track or two for it to fit on one vinyl.  Which isn't a bad idea but I'd be down with a double vinyl especially with the incentive of bonus material.  I think most people buying to listen would prefer the double and accept the up-charge.  Thou doing the double vinyl would most likely lose some (but not all) of the people that would buy it to hang on their wall.  And also some of the people wanting to buy two. 

Another thing to consider...  When Mr.Bungle originally released Disco Volante it was one long song over the vinyl limit so they cut Platypus from the LP but included a 7" of Platypus along with the LP

Yeah, it is an album. I think I would feel short changed to buy a version with a track or two missing.  What tracks would you lose? Probably my favorites.

Travis, another thing to consider is to make compilation albums on vinyl.  Whether it be an all Thanatopsis comp or a "Buckethead on TDRS" comp etc.  That might resolve some of the reduced fan base issue. 

Hey, Travis. One way you might be able to fit all 50+ minutes of Axiology onto an affordable package might be to go with a double 10-inch LP. Some of Radiohead's albums were pressed in that manner, and they're very good releases. It'd be more expensive than a single LP, but cheaper than a 2xLP.

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm not a big fan of compilation albums ( Left Hanging was more a collection). I make albums and Axiology was definitely thought out to play as a whole. My Affection for albums comes from the vinyl era, so its a bit ironic. So I hate to break it out. But thats an idea with merit. I think if I remember 10" holds 12 minutes a side before the sound goes all to hell.  So, still a little shy and I did look into it, not much cheaper by the time you factor in printed goods. Also there are fewer places that do it, my preferred place doesn't handle 10". But, I'm not knocking any of this down, I appreciate the feedback.

Quote from: Travis on January 27, 2015, 08:24:23 pm
Yeah, it is an album. I think I would feel short changed to buy a version with a track or two missing.  What tracks would you lose? Probably my favorites.

nono dont cut anything short for axiology if it wont fit onto a single LP. im saying press a different album on a single LP under 40 minutes or whatever.

Peppers Ghost is 45 minutes long, that works for a single LP right?
Albino Slug 47 minutes
Decoding the Tomb 46 minutes
Elephant Man 46 minutes
Crime Slunk 44 minutes
Inbred Mountain 43 minutes

If Axiology ends up no-go for now, maybe see if people would be interested in a Thanatopsis self-titled pressing. That one is shorter, so you could pull off a single LP, put some of the money you get from that towards a proper Axiology pressing, or anything else that piques your interest. And I would definitely look into doing something through Kickstarter, that way you can scan for interest, and get your money up-front.

And advertise this kinda thing anywhere you can! Vinyl is HUGE right now. (There were more LP's sold in 2014 than in 1993.) I think people would be all over this if you could bring attention to it through Facebook or Twitter or something. Lots of fans probably don't hang out on forums, so you're only getting a fraction of the interest that's really out there.

Thanks for the response.  Just wanted to say that I am also very much an album guy, myself.  And wouldn't suggest it so much for the Thanatopsis material.  I think any fan willing to by a "Best of" Thanatopsis would just as much be willing to buy an Axiology double vinyl.

If this vinyl thing ends up being lucrative and you wanted to then put some Buckethead on vinyl.  The compilation idea might be a good way to test the waters while keeping it to a single LP.  "Best Of" or "Greatest Hits" compilations don't work for me because they always contain songs that you've heard on the radio a billion times and leaves out the good album cuts that the real fans want.   One compilation that comes to mind that works at give the listener new ways to hear familiar material is Tom Waits' Beautiful Maladies.  He, the artist, hand picked those songs and he doesn't have any hits to begin with.  So arranging songs from one portion of his career made for an fresh listen.

Again, the only reason I'd suggest that for Buckethead's material is it solves the keeping it to one LP situation and gives something a little new to the fanbase.  I for one would like to see any of it get pressed on vinyl.  Of course if there was one Buckethead release on TDRS that there was on overwhelming demand/sales for, making it an easy pick then that's another story.

I may be getting to far ahead...one step at a time...here's hoping to see Axiology get pressed!

Thank you for the reminder we are talking TDRSmusic releases, so the list of possible CDs from above there would be zero I could press. Not my records.

Quote from: Travis on January 27, 2015, 12:28:12 am
No need to apologize, I appreciate your thoughtful reply.  The more feedback i get the better to allow me to judge the  real interest in this.

Thanks Travis. I would agree with what some have already said. Those buying vinyl today are happy to pay more for a quality 2LP with bonus material etc, so I almost think this would be a safer bet than a cheaper single LP.

Plus like you have said, compilations don't tend to work, and an album has been created to be appreciated as a whole, so chopping songs off to fit one LP would defeat the object I think.

I still believe there will be many that are not aware of this forum or not registered that would buy this, we all need to get their attentions so we can make it happen.

I'm spreading the word.

Quote from: Travis on January 27, 2015, 10:34:14 pm
Thank you for the reminder we are talking TDRSmusic releases, so the list of possible CDs from above there would be zero I could press. Not my records.

any TDRS albums under 40 minutes

Quote from: BoxenstienMusic on January 28, 2015, 01:01:09 am

Quote from: Travis on January 27, 2015, 10:34:14 pm
Thank you for the reminder we are talking TDRSmusic releases, so the list of possible CDs from above there would be zero I could press. Not my records.

any TDRS albums under 40 minutes

I don't think there's ANY TDRS album under 40 minutes...the ones closest to the 40 minute mark are Chicken Noodles II and Left Hanging, and pretty much most of the Buckethead albums recorded here. Whatever vinyl is pressed, though...I WILL buy it.

in regards to the PO vinyl - i bought one off of amazon and asked ION for some details - here's the response i got:

"
ion is my label ,it was released about two weeks ago,i pressed 1000,deluxe the next pressing will not be deluxe,if this works will press buckethead land two,and both bucketheads cobra stikethanks
ps black vinyl
"

Quote from: bibLLiosoph on January 28, 2015, 07:08:59 pm
in regards to the PO vinyl...

That's outstanding! Thanks for the info!

Quote from: bibLLiosoph on January 28, 2015, 07:08:59 pm
in regards to the PO vinyl - i bought one off of amazon and asked ION for some details - here's the response i got:

"
ion is my label ,it was released about two weeks ago,i pressed 1000,deluxe the next pressing will not be deluxe,if this works will press buckethead land two,and both bucketheads cobra stikethanks
ps black vinyl
"

unbelievable. cant believe ion kept this so quiet! mine shipped out this morning and apparently is expected to take 2 months to arrive hahaha shit

Travis, you should do a kickstarter. That way you get the money before you do anything. You could add some special features for example, if someone backs 100$ he gets 2 limited edition copies and some cool stuff. If you don't get enough backing money, the project doesn't happen and they simply give the money back to buyers.

Quote from: kingchicken on January 29, 2015, 08:08:28 pmIf you don't get enough backing money, the project doesn't happen and they simply give the money back to buyers.

With Kickstarter no one is charged unless the threshold is met, no refunds needed.

That being said - I think a kickstarter would be the way to go.

I think Kickstarter is a bad idea. You are adding a % of your budget into paying Kickstarter, which means you need even more money than you did at the beginning. From what i've seen from kickstarter campaigns, the service is good when you think you'll be able to gain much more money than you need, which easily covers the kickstarer costs while giving a bigger budget to play with. Being realistic, that will not be the case when talking about Axiology. The fan base is loyal but not big, no matter the platform you use.

I've seen a lot of people saying they'll order 1 or 2 copies, that is great to hear, but we dont want this to be a dejavu from A Real Diamond in the Rough repressing. This time we should put our money where our mouths are. Travis should set up a page of it on TDRS as if you were selling the vinyl, but instead you are just pre-ordering it. Essentially, Travis would be making his own kickstarter here on TDRS, and you become an investor. You hope that the goal will be met and you get your product. If after a certain period of time this goal is not met, the money is refunded to you (or most of it, depending if the service Travis uses takes a cut).
It would be the most cost effective method for Travis, that way he saves the money from paying kickstarter. I know it sounds harsh for the user to potentially loose some money, its a harsh reality, but at the end, you are an investor in the project, and they might or not loose money sponsoring it.

Hey there Travis and gang!

Eric from SlyVinyl.com here and I just wanted to share this little tidbit of inside info with ya'll:

I created a post for the Buckethead - Population Override vinyl release approximately 48 hours ago and the interest has really been tremendous.
Already this post has rocketed to the top of our Top Posts list for all posts created in the last 7 days!

I know this doesn't directly correlate with interest in a potential Axiology pressing, but I think it does highlight that Buckethead is a draw for vinyl enthusiasts and below shows some really good numbers (even for our tiny blog!).

(http://i.imgur.com/4DeGCJ0.png)

And in all honesty, I think the demand for this PO vinyl would actually be more if there had been any sort of press release or promotion for it at all.

It's almost like it was a secret release, but Occum's Razor tells me it was more likely just laziness on the label's part (odd when there's money on the line).

Anyways, I just thought I'd share that, because I see there's a lot of deliberation/discussion going on here about gauging interest.

Cheers!

Eric Hughes
Sly Vinyl Author

Quote from: kingchicken on January 29, 2015, 08:08:28 pm
Travis, you should do a kickstarter. That way you get the money before you do anything. You could add some special features for example, if someone backs 100$ he gets 2 limited edition copies and some cool stuff. If you don't get enough backing money, the project doesn't happen and they simply give the money back to buyers.

kickstarter is a bad idea

A couple of points to cover. Some of these are points made here and some to those sending me ideas by email. I've mentioned this about Kickstarter before. In fact all of this has been gone over a number of times trying to repress CD's. I'm not big on Kickstarter. As was mentioned above, it might be fine if you have a big enough fan base to cover Kickstarter's take. I know it's hard to believe for a lot of you but we have a really small fan base to start with. Now we are talking about people who actually buy things, a sub base of that fan base and a product of limited interest to them.  I think probably a couple of hundred buyers at most.

I know Population Override was pressed at 1000 and it may do well, but I think there will be a lot of left over records or a lot of stock for a long time. The CD is a slow seller having saturated it's fan base long ago.  Population Override could easily have been called Thanatopsis, or Dragons of Eden or some band name, but through a twist of fate ION was owed a record and I had one, so it's the only collaboration to be called a "Buckethead" record and the only one I did that left my label. Just by virtue of that, it gets way more attention than Thanatopsis and I have no control of it. So comparing them doesn't work in terms of prospects. It may do better than I think. But for me I have this little body of work that is really tricky to decide  how I should address my limited resources in terms of what to do with it.

Really the easiest and cheapest thing would be do nothing. It's easy to get carried away by the enthusiasm of 42 really great people who have supported me and a lot of I have known for years. And I'm doing the reductionist math here, 42 people saying in a poll they will buy 2 translates to how many actual pre-sales? I hear you about trying to spread the word more then just this forum, but really, the way the internet works, just a post here spreads and there are posts about this in lots of forums and Facebook and so on. In fact my off hand remark about PO vinyl a few posts back  is probably responsible for any sales its getting now. I'm pretty sure any real interest will make it's way here if it's real.  I'm taking all of this into account. The poll is only to gauge the interest and I can extrapolate the real interest just observing whats goes on here.

So the poll is only a test to see if it's worth pre-selling the LP. Thats what I would do, but up a page, describe what I'm going to make and ask those to buy it now and hopefully take possession in a few months.  We have been here before, to repress "Buckethead" CDs not Thanatopsis and the market was saturated by the first pressing and so little enough demand to justify a repress.

I know this is a little different and I really would love to do this and it's kind of fun collaborating with you all to try to brainstorm a way to do something we all kind of want.
I'm not here to make money on this, I never have, so why start now. If I can just cover the costs I would do it. If I made a profit, I would just press something else with it. I do not want to pre-sell 42 or 62 LPs and have to go through the laborious banking task of returning the money.

This started by, as I often am, being asked "when will Axiology (or insert out of press record here) get repressed". In the end, it's no big deal, an obscure little record on an even more obscure label trying to drum up enough interest to resurrect itself for one more little splash of attention. But there is something cool and old school rock and roll about it.

So, I'll let it ride. This will either gain some momentum and we will have vinyl or it will peter out all together.
In the meantime, I'm digging around the old mixes and looking for interesting unreleased bits and just seeing what kind of package I could but together just in case it doesn't.

Sorry Travis. I was posting at the same time you were but have now removed it as you have addressed some of what I said and more.

I can't argue with anything you've said about the logistics of this and respect you for considering this (and other previous represses I have benefited from) for its artistic merit regardless of any potential financial gains (or not as the case may be).

Clearly though, nobody wants this to have a negative impact on you financially either, and you are right to consider this logically (along with the heart).

I agree that people will hopefully find this if demand is there. I really hope so (not just so I can own a copy but for the grass roots, rock n' roll reasons you mentioned).

Eric - Welcome to the forum! Would there be Amy possibility of this being added to the Population Override blog with a link to the forum? It might be the push that's needed. And don't forget to vote on the poll (same goes for anyone  ;) ) Thanks, keep up the good work.

Yeah, I think all of us definitely get where you're coming from, Travis. Like you said, let it ride. Who knows, maybe a couple months from now we'll be seeing the kind of demand you need to make this happen.

Just out of curiosity, are you thinking of picking up a Population Override LP? For old times' sake?  ;D

Quote from: Travis on January 29, 2015, 11:17:57 pm
This started by, as I often am, being asked "when will Axiology (or insert out of press record here) get repressed". In the end, it's no big deal, an obscure little record on an even more obscure label trying to drum up enough interest to resurrect itself for one more little splash of attention. But there is something cool and old school rock and roll about it.

Travis, sorry for all the activity (maybe unwanted) that my question started.  But the only point I wanted to make now is this; the reason I asked about Axiology is because the store still lists this cd, and it is described as "temp sold out".  To me, this implies you have some plan to bring it back at some point.  Other CDs have simply disappeared from the store altogether as your inventory went to zero.  For instance, Shadows Between the Sky is the CD I most regret missing out on, but it is not listed in the store at all.  So I know it will never be repressed.

I'm not really interested in vinyl (although I do have a turntable down in the basement somewhere!), so I'll be looking to get Axiology used somewhere.  Thanks for entertaining the idea.

Bingeneer - Although ironically you are not interested in a vinyl copy of the album, I for one am glad you asked the question which has led to some exciting activity, and who knows, hopefully in the not too distant future to a vinyl pressing of a great album.

Like you I also somehow missed out on Shadows.. I don't quite know how as I was always keeping an eye out at the time and was glad to have the opportunity to buy A Real Diamond In The Rough, and even got one of the first Happy Holidays LE's that was used here on the Tdrs site, and the picture is still on Wiki (I never put it there).

But yeah, I agree on missing out on Shadows.. and am always a keen supporter of a repress even if only for the benefit of others, so thank you for at least igniting the spark. I notice we are up a vote.

If anyone is reading this and interested in a vinyl copy of Axiology, and perhaps not registered on the forum, help make it happen. Register and vote, let's keep the interest going. Cheers  :)

Here's the pics (full album): http://imgur.com/a/tK8eN (http://"http://imgur.com/a/tK8eN")

Haven't had a chance to spin it yet - but I cannot tell you the extra tracks, they aren't mentioned anywhere on the release...

Someone's going to have to listen and write them down I figure....

(http://i.imgur.com/l64yqtM.jpg)
S

Quote from: bibLLiosoph on February 02, 2015, 10:10:18 pm
Here's the pics (full album): http://imgur.com/a/tK8eN (http://"http://imgur.com/a/tK8eN")

Haven't had a chance to spin it yet - but I cannot tell you the extra tracks, they aren't mentioned anywhere on the release...

Someone's going to have to listen and write them down I figure....

The bonus tracks are listed here: http://www.discogs.com/Buckethead-Population-Override/release/6603460 (http://www.discogs.com/Buckethead-Population-Override/release/6603460)

Like those guys, I also don't have Shadows... so any kind of repress on that would be great, but honestly I think Shadows, Captain EO's Voyage or Inbred Mountain would be your best bet to generate interest in Bucket-related vinyl, and perhaps do Axiology afterwards if the first does well? For instance, I'm considering buying 2 Axiology vinyl's (depends how much shipping is) but I wouldn't even think twice about Captain EO or Shadows.
There's definitely interest in Buckethead vinyl, and if people have to come to this site to buy it, you could put a link or a poll at the top of the page to an Axiology poll/pre-order?

Again, and maybe again. We are only talking about TDRSmusic records here.  Thanatopsis, Dragons of Eden, Chicken Noodles, like that. I don't own the rights to those other records, never have.

Thanatopsis self-titled is short enough for a single LP. If you're serious about putting something out on vinyl, I might start there, work your way up to longer, more expensive albums.

Also, people need to learn the difference between products that Travis can sell, and albums that Travis owns. Who wouldn't love SBTS to get pressed? Wrong place to ask, though.

Just bought one copie of Population Override, the vinyl, at Amazon   :)
50 $ to France  :o  but hey... it's a vinyl   :)

got mine yesterday, it is EXCELLENT!!

Yes! Please press. I just got Population Override and its a no brainer, no question, will buy.

After giving it some time/thought, I'm down- I hope it happens!

Hey Travis, why not up the price to $35? Would that reduce the number of people that need to buy Axiology on vinyl?

Just to get back on track. Different guitar and piano takes.

My bad, Travis, although I honestly did think TDRS released Inbred Mountain.
I think someone else mentioned a double 10" pressing - would that be out of the question for Axiology or perhaps, Dragons of Eden?

---

If he upped the price to $35, it would probably reduce the numbers of at least the people saying they'd buy two.

---

Travis, I guess you, Brain and Bucket don't want to put together a new record as a vinyl+download-only release, huh? ;)

I think a lot of people would buy buckethead on vinyl.

Quote from: Travis on February 15, 2015, 08:51:06 pm
Just to get back on track. Different guitar and piano takes.

Cool. Thanks for making the alternative version available, Travis 8)

Population override is sold out at amazon.

Does Travis own DeathCubeK? Would be cool on vinyl too, but I guess the market for DCK on vinyl is even smaller then buckethead/thanatopsis.

In case you don't know this site http://www.blood-music.com/
They deal with small amount of pressing or repressing (50 - 100 - 150) of artist such as Maudlin of the well,
Strapping Young Lad, Whourkr... (maybe too "metal" for Axiology)
Could it be a possibility ?

QuotePopulation override is sold out at amazon

They still sell it !

A real diamond in the rough?

Quote from: ichimatsu on February 17, 2015, 06:12:11 pm

QuotePopulation override is sold out at amazon

They still sell it !

I can't seem to find it. Can you link it?

QuoteI can't seem to find it. Can you link it?

It seems to have 2 sellers !

Quote from: ichimatsu on February 17, 2015, 06:35:28 pm

It seems to have 2 sellers !

$50 to Sweden is a bit much unfortunately  :( Getting affordable buckethead stuff in Europe is almost impossible...

Here's Norman's official Discogs page if anyone is still looking to buy direct from the label:

http://www.discogs.com/seller/normansoundvision/profile

QuoteHere's Norman's official Discogs page if anyone is still looking to buy direct from the label:

http://www.discogs.com/seller/normansoundvision/profile

yes but here it is 5$ cheaper   ;)

here
https://ionrecords.bandcamp.com/album/population-override
::)

This sounds great if we can make it happen! I will buy 2 on Vinyl as well!

I'm in for 2 LPs.

Hey Travis,

Any word on a vinyl pressing?

I think it's safe to say all my efforts to prolong the viability of tangible media here have been unsuccessful. No one is less shocked then me. Over the last several years the popularity of CDs diminished to now non-existent. As the poll here would indicate there are about 50 dedicated collectors and supporters that continue to invest in collecting, but thats just not enough.

My attempt to tease a little more out of the last Thanatopsis recordings was a gamble on my part that enough folks would come out of the woodwork to enable to pay for the Requiem CD, re-press Axiology and look at vinyl. And, had this been 2008 that would have been no problem. As it is, I still haven't accomplished the first goal.

Really the problem is much more serious than just tangible product. Even the download sales have become rare. The world has gone to streaming and frankly sharing. There is no money for artists in either of those models. in 10 years what looked like a opportunity for independent artists to profit from their music on the internet through direct sales and social media with out the need for major record companies has been soundly defeated. Ironically and not surprisingly as thats the way power works, by the same corporations that have always controlled art and any profit to be made. CD sales industry wide are down, digital downloads are down and as these articles you read about music sales always say, the bright spot is vinyl sales are up 35 percent. What they always fail to show is it's 35 percent of nothing compared to all other media.

Whats left of the big record companies now is three corporations. Gone are the record moguls that although ruthless where still music fans. Now its all just business people. These companies have been investing in streaming. They have been buying up small streaming start ups and leveraging music rights and rates with streamers they can't own. The revenue streams are diverted through sweetheart deals and as usual independents get the short end of the stick. Artists typically see about .0007 per stream. Even if your selling huge numbers, thats nothing. What about Bandcamp and Tunecore? Really I think these are just predator ventures that promote the music dream to artists pooling as many as they can and take a pretty health chuck of what is really small sales from a lot of artists. I was really shocked to see Thanatopsis Requiem at number 18 of download sales for the week it was released on Bandcamp. Shocked because it sold 20 downloads, do the math.

In short, streaming belongs to the big corporations . Steaming is the future of music delivery. Streaming will be in direct competition to sharing. For Streaming to really work, a sweet spot of universal music availability and price will have to be reached. Corporations have a tendency to be greedy. Here now, sharing wins. Unfortunately in either case artists lose.

In a perfect world, a streaming service that offers any music you want at high quality on demand for around $50 per year with a fair price paid to the artist might, just might have a prayer of competing with file sharing.

Without going into the whole copyrights thing with file sharing. Thats a whole other side of the spectrum, ISPs and how big media really makes money. I'm more interested in legal streaming and fair payment both by record companies and directly to independent artists.

Now, it's a nice day to make music, I think I'll go gardening.

Only 20 downloads sold in the first week? That's really not much :-[

But my guess would be that simply not enough people knew about the new album. I mean, how would I have known that there is a new Thanatopsis album, if I didn't check out this forum at regular intervals? I guess I wouldn't - until I stumbled upon it "by accident". So I think there might be quite a lot of people who would have bought it, if they only knew it exists. And the "hardcore" fans, who do check out the TDRS forum regularly, they probably pre-ordered the CD and then didn't buy the download too (at least I have to admit that I didn't buy the download in addition to my CD). I don't know of a solution, but I guess the situation would be much different, if this wasn't a "studio only" band project. Probably a whole pile of CD's could be sold at every live show. I go to live shows quite a lot. Most of these bands will sell CD's and/or Vinyl after the show. And I see quite a lot of people buying CD's and Vinyl at shows. That's in year 2015, by the way.

About streaming: I'm not a fan of streaming at all! It's because it is totally up to the streaming provided to decide what tracks are available and how long they will be available. What if some of my favorite albums/tracks were available only via streaming services, because "everybody has moved to streaming", but one day they have just disappeared (e.g. because the contract between the streaming provider and the content provider has ended)? Streaming providers come and go. So do download shops. But once I bought a DRM-free MP3 or FLAC download, I can play it whenever I want and wherever I want. And without time limit - provided I do a proper backup of my files . With streaming I will always be depending on the "goodwill" of the streaming provider.

Yes, for the usual "throw away" music that you hear in radio and television, this all doesn't matter. That music is made to run on replay for one month and then it will be moved to trash to be forgotten. So nobody cares whether it will still be available after that month. Streaming fits perfectly here. But it's a totally different matter with "quality" music, like what TDRS creates. This deserver something better! (offering streaming in addition to downloads and/or physical discs would be perfectly fine, of course)

Mulder, Im just riffing off our conversation. I know your a software developer and you know all this stuff so I'm not really addressing you but I get asked about this a lot and I'm just taking advantage of this thread to vent. You and I may be from the same generation and I feel the same as you about  a lot of this. However....


It's true this site and in fact most independent music relies on the networking of fans. I don't need to reach all the fans here at this site, just enough so that it networks to other fan sites, forums, Facebook and so on. We have always worked that way and without a label thats the only hope. If I can't spread the word by networking it means I have no fan base, no interest in what I'm doing. As I said before, I know the word is out, just Google Thanatopsis Requiem and you get page after page of the CD posted on download sites all over the world, bless their hearts for spreading the word. This isn't just about this CD. All CD sales are down to nothing, touring band or not. Downloads are down over last year globally as well.

I was really speaking more universally about the music business than here locally about the trends, though I see the same things here. I had just finished a few articles on Forbes about them. Like it or not there is no doubt that streaming in the next few years will be the dominate means of music delivery it's already half way there. You will stream to your computer, mobile devise, car , shower head, everywhere. No worries about transporting anything, everything will be networked. Not just music, the cloud is here, video, gaming, music, applications absolutely everything. World corporations don't want you owning anything, they want you to suckle the pipe and pay for the service. Don't pay, no pipe.
There is already a universal cloud library with all the music ever recorded, one stop shopping. It's called file sharing and the price is right. If there is any hope for making money off music it has to compete with that.

I know I'm sounding a bit jaded but really I'm not. None of this is new, I've been posting about this for years. I'm only speaking about it now because we started talking about re-pressing CDs and this comes up often.  This is all part of a global revolution that will sort it self out. Its one of many technological revolutions that came before. Try to find a good tube radio, icebox, or powdered wig. I'm old enough to say I had a good run. I made my living in the music business and will work to retirement. I don't think that can be done any longer for someone starting out.

Really it will come down to the value of intellectual property rights and finding a way for people who create things to make some of the money everyone else is making off their creations. That will make for a healthy music economey.

Just to beat a dead horse a little longer. For those that say money is in touring here's a good read:

http://www.americansongwriter.com/2015/04/guest-blog-dar-williams-looks-back-two-decades-touring/#.VUYo3f4xFwk.facebook

Most musicians I know, it doesn't pay to take a band on the road. iPod back up sound familiar?

She talks about streaming in the article too.  10 years ago in my Artist support page I mentioned the ISPs will have to take some responsibility for copyrights. I think the Youtube model might be the way.  It's needs to pay a hell of a lot better but the way it works now is like file sharing, anyone can upload anything. The artist has the option to have it taken down or monetize it. In the case of Youtube ads are placed on your copyrighted stuff and you are paid revenue. It works because the finger printing that recognizes songs identifies the copyright. Just like Facebook can use facial recognition to identify you in a picture someday posts of you.  I can image ISP identifying copyrighted files as they  in anyway pass through an ISP.  Then a fraction of a cent would be paid to the copyright holder, either by billing the ISP account holder or more Netfix like, working it into the monthly fee.  Now it wouldn't matter who uploads what where. It's a global library monetized by the ISP using file recognition software. If everybody who downloads any copyrighted file paid a fraction of a cent for it, it could be a bargain for the consumer and add up for the copyright holder.

Quote from: Travis on May 01, 2015, 04:15:58 pm
Over the last several years the popularity of CDs diminished to now non-existent

the majority of music sold is sold on CD. over $7 billion worth of CDs were sold last year. 94% of physical music sales were on CD last year.

who buys CDs anymore? a lot more people than buy any other way to hear music. Yes. $7 billion is less than $20 billion. But it's still a lot of money. It's still hundreds of millions of CDs. Every fucking year. Let's not delude ourselves into believing a lie.

I'm talking about here. Cd sales here. No lie, I can assure you!