When whitewolf said that democracy is no good for tribal people and nobody challenged him on that i had a feeling this board was infested with closet racists. But now its been 4 days since the first black man won the iowa caucusses and the silence is quite puzzling. I mean after all you liberals are the ones constantly making the claim that you champion the cause and the plight of black people held under thumb of us racist rich WHITE republicans. I thought for sure this board would be alive with posts reveling in this historic event.
Well, ok, greetings-might as well make this my first post. I\'m excited to know that the current administration has pushed people far enough to want major change. I hope he takes it all the way. I\'m a little surprised at the lack of enthusiasm as well...... :-/
Quotemajor change
ahh yes the "change" mantra ive had shoved down my throat in every 10 second soundbyte spewing forth from my TV. a vague and ambiguous campaign slogan tailor made for a political party that lacks any substanative answers to the most simple problems america faces.
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ahh yes the "change" mantra ive had shoved down my throat in every 10 second soundbyte spewing forth from my TV. a vague and ambiguous campaign slogan tailor made for a political party that lacks any substanative answers to the most simple problems america faces.
No better or worse than the platform Bush stole the election over on-terrorism. I\'ll take just about anything over the current administration, even roadkill.
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No better or worse than the platform Bush stole the election over on-terrorism. I\'ll take just about anything over the current administration, even roadkill.
if your contention is that "roadkill" could govern just as well as a human then you admit this whole change thing is purely based upon your hatred of bush and this change you seem to want is not in any certain policy?
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if your contention is that "roadkill" could govern just as well as a human then you admit this whole change thing is purely based upon your hatred of bush and this change you seem to want is not in any certain policy?
I\'ll admit to something I\'m not proud of-I voted for Bush, and I\'m very sorry I did. Purely on the terrorist platform. Thankfully, this administration has turned me completely around on the Republican party, so it\'s a blessing in disguise. I tend to lean toward the Libertarian side, however I have issues with their gun platform. I\'ll say I\'m fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
To answer your question from the other thread on illegal aliens voting (trying to answer it in less posts), I\'m against "illegals" voting anywher outside of their country. But I\'m also repulsed by how much money and effort the Republicans pour into invalidating votes or voters that might be considered Democrats.
I speak only for myself, but the reason for my silence on political issues on this board has been you. Discourse does not happen with you - most often you choose to simply insult and rant at those whose opinions differ without engaging in genuine conversation. You make conversation about politics here into something annoying... and the political scene has enough annoyances without getting into a pissing contest with an anonymous person who, however aptly, chooses to use a handle glorifying the expression of foul air from his anus.
^I second that!^
Eggman, unless I missed something I\'m pretty sure she is referring to Phartacus -- I know I am; there\'s history.
Sex and skin doesn\'t matter to me just platform. I (more than likely) wouldn\'t be for Clinton and Obama together. I would fear that the two of them would battle each other; each wanting to steer the boat regardless of who held the captains hat.
Phartacus, you always complain that we don\'t say anything good about Bush, so this one is for you: I read recently that Bush\'s 4000 square foot Crawford ranch is considerable greener then Gore\'s 10,000 square foot Nashville mansion. Props to Bush for his eco friendly ranch which includes -- rain and water recycling, and geo thermal heating and cooling.
QuoteEggman, unless I missed something I\'m pretty sure she is referring to Phartacus -- I know I am; there\'s history.
Sex and skin doesn\'t matter to me just platform. I (more than likely) wouldn\'t be for Clinton and Obama together. I would fear that the two of them would battle each other; each wanting to steer the boat regardless of who held that captains hat.
Phartacus, you always complain that we don\'t say anything good about Bush, so this one is for you: I read recently that Bush\'s 4000 square foot Crawford ranch is considerable greener then Gore\'s 10,000 square foot Nashville mansion. Props to Bush for his eco friendly ranch which includes -- rain and water recycling, and geo thermal heating and cooling.
Oops, what a dummy-I assumed it was aimed at me since it was directly below my post-which is now gone (whew). Thanks, I feel better now!
You\'re not a dummy; it\'s an easy mistake, cause that\'s the way most post read. If you are relatively new to this battle ground you would have no idea of past history. You sure didn\'t need to remove your post. I thought your question on an Obama/Clinton ticket was an interesting one.
I for one will be soooo pissed if Clinton steels the nomination through Super Delegates. It might even be enough to get me to vote Republican. Not to imply that I have anything against Clinton, but if she disregards the popular vote and acquires the nod through smoke filled back room politics, I\'m not sure I would trust her to have the peoples best interests in mind. The same would hold true if the tides turn on Obama.
Democrats can\'t scream foul play when it happened in 2000 and then sit back and accept it inside their own party.
QuoteYou\'re not a dummy; it\'s an easy mistake, cause that\'s the way most post read. If you are relatively new to this battle ground you would have no idea of past history. You sure didn\'t need to remove your post. I thought your question on an Obama/Clinton ticket was an interesting one.
I for one will be soooo pissed if Clinton steels the nomination through Super Delegates. It might even be enough to get me to vote Republican. Not to imply that I have anything against Clinton, but if she disregards the popular vote and acquires the nod through smoke filled back room politics, I\'m not sure I would trust her to have the peoples best interests in mind. The same would hold true if the tides turn on Obama.
Democrats can\'t scream foul play when it happened in 2000 and then sit back and accept it inside their own party.
Whatever you do, please don\'t vote Republican. McCain is an honorable man, however he would continue the Bush administration\'s work in Iraq. I agree with you on the super delegates, a bizarre nomination ploy. Sucks bigtime because they make up one-fifth of the total number of delegates. After all the stolen or disregarded Democratic votes in the last two presidential elections, we get this thrown into the mix.
Yes, I can\'t imagining voting for someone who says it\'s ok to be in Iraq for the next 100 years.
As far as the delegates b.s., it just proves that no matter what most, if not all, politicians are cut from the same cloth.
Eggman - I\'m sorry for any confusion - my reference to the handle may have been just a bit too oblique... it was indeed intended for Phartacus and not you.
As to your current discussion with Buswolley - I think the only way to end a lot of this jerrymandering of the vote is to do away with the electoral college.
Peace to ya both. :-*
We\'ve been down this road a time or two haven\'t we, G. It would give me a glimmer of hope for electoral reform if the Democrats even began discussing their own party voting faults.
Obama says he will not follow lobbyist or PAC agendas - its one thing not to take their money, but it\'s another to change the way the system currently works. There is so much in Washington to clean up, on both sides. I don\'t see how anyone can talk about fixing/changing health care, insurance, air pollution, oil dependence without changing the way our current government operates. I see little hope for reform with money steering the ship (I seem to be on a nautical reference theme lately, captain\'s hat, steering the ship. *rolls eyes*) And blaming the Republicans is "the pot calling the kettle black." I hope there are substantial changes and not just a lot of beating against the hull. *cheeky smile*
My husband had an interesting observation a couple of days ago, he said that perhaps the world needs Obama; the son of an immigrant, African American, there was one more, but I can\'t recall. The world needs to see America look past its dogma and prejudices, and to know that we are ready to embrace our place in a world environment. He seems to embody that better than the others. I don\'t think that should be the sole reason to vote for anyone, but it made a certain amount of sense. Anyone else\'s thoughts...
There are worse reasons to vote for someone. There are also better ones. I wasn\'t really talking about whom one chooses to vote for, though.
The electoral college is a big part of the mess we\'re in, in terms of how the voting process works. If we hadn\'t had the electoral college, we would not have had Bush in the White House. The votes were tampered with, but in the end the Democrats still had a majority of the votes, it was the electoral college that swung to the Republicans.
The PAC, the lobbyists, the corporate reach into the depths of our halls of government are very serious problems, that is a fact. It must change. That part can be changed, but that\'s not just a function of the presidency. That takes full participation by the house and senate, and there is no way they will ever be fully under the control of one party - yes, there are majorities either way at different times, but they traditionally work to stand in the way of things, not to actually support change. None of this is solely a Republican issue; the Democrats are far from pure. I completely agree. I was talking about the voting process.
The massive issues with the functional aspects of the government are a large cluster of nightmares to tackle, and it can\'t all be fixed in one sweep of the presidential pen. It\'s a nice fantasy, but it\'s not possible. If it was, there would be something seriously wrong going. We\'d be living under a dictatorship.
We need a strong leader, yes, but we also need people walking their butts, with confidence, to the voting polls for their local and state interim elections, and not just for the presidental ones. They need to actually care and pay attention. That brings me back to my original point - the electoral college is a part of what makes many folks feel that their votes are meaningless in the presidential election - and once they buy into that sense of disconnection, they cynical dismissal corrupts their attitude about voting in general.
I really think that besides being a functional correction and improvement, removing the electoral college would be the sort of change that might make at least some of those folks feel that there was a chance their voice would make a difference.
In my fantasy world, I\'d like to see voting be compulsory, including a box to check that said "Abstain". You can abstain, but not by default.
:-*
I knew you were speaking about the voting process, and not specifics. My last two paragraphs are random thoughts not responses to your comment. And, yes I soooo agree with you the problems and solutions go much farther than the president. It would be an up hill battle indeed, and a job that could only be accomplished by everyone. Unfortunately, money generally wins.
Yep, one office at a time. Tuesday is a big one for our local representative to the State government - I have my fingers crossed. Our county has just set a new turnout record for voting, even before Tuesday, and I\'m pretty sure it\'s not all about the Presidential race.
Compulsory voting seems to work in Australia. You can choose not to vote, but face a fine. I have often wanted an abstaining vote, especially when the nominee was unopposed.
I\'ve always wondered, would more people vote if the polls were at Wal-mart? :-/
QuoteEggman - I\'m sorry for any confusion - my reference to the handle may have been just a bit too oblique... it was indeed intended for Phartacus and not you.
As to your current discussion with Buswolley - I think the only way to end a lot of this jerrymandering of the vote is to do away with the electoral college.
Peace to ya both. :-*
I believe the electoral college was set up to urge candidates to plead their case to an entire state, otherwise if there was a popular vote they could just concentrate their efforts in larger metro areas. We of course could argue if its an outdated system. I personally dont like it.
GKG ive been meaning to send you a PM just havent found time...keep an eye out please
Buswolley~
So sorry - I misunderstood and thought maybe I\'d miscommunicated something that made you think I was talking about something beyond the electoral college. :)
Trivia Alert: An interesting thing to note is that each time the electoral college vote has swung against the popular vote, a Republican won the office.
You know, you\'re right - I think the Australian system might be a good one to examine. Ah Wal-Mart, sadly yes, I think that might be a very good place for a voting station - though down here we do seem to have them in all sorts of places, like the Mall, the local hospitals, etc.
I also think it would help if voting was a federal holiday, so that pretty much everyone got the day off to go vote. We could issue receipts that indicated people had been to vote - and if you didn\'t turn in a copy of that receipt you had to burn a vacation or sick day, rather than declare your time as holiday. It sounds kind of petty and childish, but really, I think we need to do something to get people to participate.
Our county is setting some records I think too - though down here I do think it\'s possible it\'s about the presidential - no one seems to be talking too much about all the local stuff we\'re voting on this time.
Phartacus~
No, actually the electoral college was set up because at the time we had no way to manage the physical aspects of informing the full population on the candidates and issues for a true popular vote.
Phartacus, you are right, in that that is one modern argument for keeping the current system. There are compelling reasons on both sides of the fence. I\'m for a modified system, but most of my thoughts on the subject are found here: http://www.tdrsmusic.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=politics;action=display;num=1150913261
I like Lewis Black\'s solution. "The winner of American Idol, as soon as they are announced, is given a dart to hurl at a map. Then a monkey is flown to that exact spot on the map and shoved out of the plan with a parachute. When he lands the first person\'s hand he touches that person is the president."
Yes, that is a modern argument - sorry, I was just addressing the original remark about the reason it was set up originally.
I like Black\'s plan... except with the luck the US has been having recently that monkey would grab the hand of a potential totalitarian dictator. ;o)
Buswolley and I have differing opinions on the usefulness of the electoral college... I was pretty cross about the subject last time, obviously not one of my better attempts at communication.
hiya phartacus...
you said you meant to send me a PM - did the moment pass?
Quotehiya phartacus...
you said you meant to send me a PM - did the moment pass?
yea pretty much, basically it would have been along the lines of: dont take me seriously, never wanted you to get offended, send me nude pictures of yourself etc etc
aw... sweet... :-*
your message tickles me - especially today being my birthday... it means i get to start the day with a nice thought about someone i\'ve sparred with in the past.
thanks for the giftie!
oh and um... i signed an exclusivity contract on the nudies, sorry \'bout that. ::)
Beware: Celebrity Endorsement
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=33546997
I love Obama!
Good luck Obama!
;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xd_zkMEgkI
This summs up my feelings.
Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xd_zkMEgkI
This summs up my feelings.
Perfect! Thanks for the link.
this has been fun to read and the race has been very interesting to follow, not to mention the comic relief that\'s come of the whole fiasco.
I\'d just like to wish all of my USAmerican cousins the best possible outcome in this election. (Of course, I\'ve got my own opinion of what that would be, and it doesn\'t include the old guy and the cheerleader...)
Our recent election here in Canada probably flew beneath your radar since it wasn\'t nearly as entertaining...or long! We didn\'t get particularly lucky, though, still have a far right oil-patch nutbar at the helm (but in a minority government, which limits potential excesses a little). What\'s most upsetting to me about it is the very low voter turnout, less than 60%, and this in a country where registration is virtually automatic. Time for more of us who care enough to vote to get out there and encourage the more than 40% who were apathetic this time around. If only 38% of those voting were in favour of the current regime, is that really a majority? I think not.
VOTE OBAMA,YES WE CAN!!!
;) :-*
(http://l.yimg.com/a/i/br/news/1108/obama_ocarismatico.jpg)
Bootsy and Bucket say
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i181/okehitsu/bucketbootsyfans3.jpg)
I apologize in advance.
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_win_causes_obsessive