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no love for obama?

Started by phartacus, January 06, 2008, 12:45:22 pm

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There are worse reasons to vote for someone.  There are also better ones.  I wasn\'t really talking about whom one chooses to vote for, though.

The electoral college is a big part of the mess we\'re in, in terms of how the voting process works.  If we hadn\'t had the electoral college, we would not have had Bush in the White House.  The votes were tampered with, but in the end the Democrats still had a majority of the votes, it was the electoral college that swung to the Republicans.

The PAC, the lobbyists, the corporate reach into the depths of our halls of government are very serious problems, that is a fact.  It must change.  That part can be changed, but that\'s not just a function of the presidency.  That takes full participation by the house and senate, and there is no way they will ever be fully under the control of one party - yes, there are majorities either way at different times, but they traditionally work to stand in the way of things, not to actually support change.  None of this is solely a Republican issue; the Democrats are far from pure.  I completely agree.  I was talking about the voting process.

The massive issues with the functional aspects of the government are a large cluster of nightmares to tackle, and it can\'t all be fixed in one sweep of the presidential pen.  It\'s a nice fantasy, but it\'s not possible.  If it was, there would be something seriously wrong going.  We\'d be living under a dictatorship.

We need a strong leader, yes, but we also need people walking their butts, with confidence, to the voting polls for their local and state interim elections, and not just for the presidental ones.  They need to actually care and pay attention.  That brings me back to my original point - the electoral college is a part of what makes many folks feel that their votes are meaningless in the presidential election - and once they buy into that sense of disconnection, they cynical dismissal corrupts their attitude about voting in general.

I really think that besides being a functional correction and improvement, removing the electoral college would be the sort of change that might make at least some of those folks feel that there was a chance their voice would make a difference.

In my fantasy world, I\'d like to see voting be compulsory, including a box to check that said "Abstain".  You can abstain, but not by default.


image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved


I knew you were speaking about the voting process, and not specifics.  My last two paragraphs are random thoughts not responses to your comment.  And, yes I soooo agree with you the problems and solutions go much farther than the president.  It would be an up hill battle indeed, and a job that could only be accomplished by everyone.  Unfortunately, money generally wins.

Yep, one office at a time.  Tuesday is a big one for our local representative to the State government - I have my fingers crossed.  Our county has just set a new turnout record for voting, even before Tuesday, and I\'m pretty sure it\'s not all about the Presidential race.  

Compulsory voting seems to work in Australia.  You can choose not to vote, but face a fine.  I have often wanted an abstaining vote, especially when the nominee was unopposed.  

I\'ve always wondered, would more people vote if the polls were at Wal-mart?   :-/


QuoteEggman - I\'m sorry for any confusion - my reference to the handle may have been just a bit too oblique... it was indeed intended for Phartacus and not you.

As to your current discussion with Buswolley - I think the only way to end a lot of this jerrymandering of the vote is to do away with the electoral college.

Peace to ya both.   :-*

I believe the electoral college was set up to urge candidates to plead their case to an entire state, otherwise if there was a popular vote they could just concentrate their efforts in larger metro areas. We of course could argue if its an outdated system. I personally dont like it.

GKG ive been meaning to send you a PM just havent found time...keep an eye out please


So sorry - I misunderstood and thought maybe I\'d miscommunicated something that made you think I was talking about something beyond the electoral college.   :)

Trivia Alert: An interesting thing to note is that each time the electoral college vote has swung against the popular vote, a Republican won the office.

You know, you\'re right - I think the Australian system might be a good one to examine.   Ah Wal-Mart, sadly yes, I think that might be a very good place for a voting station - though down here we do seem to have them in all sorts of places, like the Mall, the local hospitals, etc.  

I also think it would help if voting was a federal holiday, so that pretty much everyone got the day off to go vote.  We could issue receipts that indicated people had been to vote - and if you didn\'t turn in a copy of that receipt you had to burn a vacation or sick day, rather than declare your time as holiday.  It sounds kind of petty and childish, but really, I think we need to do something to get people to participate.

Our county is setting some records I think too - though down here I do think it\'s possible it\'s about the presidential - no one seems to be talking too much about all the local stuff we\'re voting on this time.

No, actually the electoral college was set up because at the time we had no way to manage the physical aspects of informing the full population on the candidates and issues for a true popular vote.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved


Phartacus, you are right, in that that is one modern argument for keeping the current system.  There are compelling reasons on both sides of the fence.  I\'m for a modified system, but most of my thoughts on the subject are found here:;action=display;num=1150913261

I like Lewis Black\'s solution.  "The winner of American Idol, as soon as they are announced, is given a dart to hurl at a map.  Then a monkey is flown to that exact spot on the map and shoved out of the plan with a parachute.  When he lands the first person\'s hand he touches that person is the president."


Yes, that is a modern argument - sorry, I was just addressing the original remark about the reason it was set up originally.

I like Black\'s plan... except with the luck the US has been having recently that monkey would grab the hand of a potential totalitarian dictator.  ;o)

Buswolley and I have differing opinions on the usefulness of the electoral college...  I was pretty cross about the subject last time, obviously not one of my better attempts at communication.

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved


hiya phartacus...

you said you meant to send me a PM - did the moment pass?

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved


Quotehiya phartacus...

you said you meant to send me a PM - did the moment pass?

yea pretty much, basically it would have been along the lines of: dont take me seriously, never wanted you to get offended, send me nude pictures of yourself etc etc


March 30, 2008, 12:24:07 pm #23 Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 07:32:38 pm by gkg
aw... sweet...  :-*

your message tickles me - especially today being my birthday... it means i get to start the day with a nice thought about someone i\'ve sparred with in the past.

thanks for the giftie!

oh and um... i signed an exclusivity contract on the nudies, sorry \'bout that.    ::)

image = <i>"Blue Velvet"</i> (front of 2-sided piece) (c) georgia k griffin - all rights reserved



I love Obama!

Good luck Obama!

edjane maps :)



This summs up my feelings.

Perfect! Thanks for the link.


this has been fun to read and the race has been very interesting to follow, not to mention the comic relief that\'s come of the whole fiasco.
Truth:  it's OK if they don't understand.  if you follow it, stay true to it, and respect it, you could be in store for the greatest journey you could ever imagine.


October 26, 2008, 02:20:31 pm #29 Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 02:22:06 pm by oldfolkie
I\'d just like to wish all of my USAmerican cousins the best possible outcome in this election. (Of course, I\'ve got my own opinion of what that would be, and it doesn\'t include the old guy and the cheerleader...)

Our recent election here in Canada probably flew beneath your radar since it wasn\'t nearly as entertaining...or long! We didn\'t get particularly lucky, though, still have a far right oil-patch nutbar at the helm (but in a minority government, which limits potential excesses a little). What\'s most upsetting to me about it is the very low voter turnout, less than 60%, and this in a country where registration is virtually automatic. Time for more of us who care enough to vote to get out there and encourage the more than 40% who were apathetic this time around. If only 38% of those voting were in favour of the current regime, is that really a majority? I think not.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity. ~  R.A. Heinlein